Plate or Counter flow chiller for the new rig?

[setmash]

As I slowly progress with the Big Fat Keg build Im starting to consider chilling options. Currently use an immersion chiller but want to make things easier on the new rig. Im almost decided on a home made counter flow chiller as I intend to recirculate in to the copper. I like the speed of a plate chiller but they sound a right pain in the ass for getting bunged up (especially on a recirculate system) and they are a pain to clean. Has anyone experience of circulating through a plate chiller and does it clog up every 5 mins ? Downside of a counter flow is that they are not as fast and wort is lost in them at the end of cooling/transfer. However with my system design it will hardly ever need cleaning or sanitizing as that will be done as part of the process.

Appreciate any feedback....

[setmash]

...the other thought i had in my mind was to use a hop spider...anybody much experience of these things, would help massively with the clean up and stop the vast majority of the hop crap getting in to the plate or counter flow chiller......???

[darkonnis]

You'll lose wort no matter what chiller you go for (except an IC)
Check out Fils counter flow build, make one entirely out of copper it is far superior to the plate chillers.

[Fil]

Hop spiders rule.. tho i am making a hop filter at the mo too.. (cos i can not cos i need to)

i recirculated my boil thru my spider..

the pot drained cleanly leaving just break material behind,


the bulk of the break had drained and finally clogged the 12v solar pump pushing the beer thru a chiller into the fv.

my take on the straight pipe cfc.. chills off the boil to pitching temp at 2-3l per min 70l in about 1/2 hour,, that would have been a fast chill with my IC in the 45l boiler with a 23l brew
yes its rubber bungs copper T's and jubileeclips..



in use, outside just in case... it will be wall mounted above the FV so it can drain into the fv and the onlu volume loss will be from kettle to chiller via pump,



i was chuffed to get this in the fv chilled within 30 mins of the end of boil,

[setmash]

Im really coming round to the idea of a hop spider. Question, you recirculate through your spider - how long do you recirculate for, the whole boil, just partial or during chill ?

As part of my system I was going to re-circulate through CF chiller and whirlpool, but i guess i could now recirculate through CF chiller and back in to hop spider as it will catch the cold break as well (why didnt you try that with your system ?) !!! My concern with hop spider is hop utilisation particularly with hops added post boil. But if I recirculate during cooling i guess this will nullify that worry also.

Your CF chiller rocks...very nice bit of kit and it has got me thinking.

[Fil]

i recirculated thru the bag for the whole boil as without keeping the bag full it just floated on top of the boil.. these keep catching my eye but the welds look a bit heat damaged?? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BEER-WORT-CUP ... 27cd2668c2

im still maturing the brew but the hops came thru in my pre pich taste ok, less so in the kegging taste in total i used 150g of challenger in a 70l brew.

recirulating thru the bag didnt seem to filter any hot break out, and needed throttling back a bit to stop overflowing ibag, initially i thought due to successful
filtering of the break but i was wrong evident by the kettle deposits and just hops in the spider post drain.

in designing or knocking up the brewkit the intention was to recirculate thru the chiller to attempt a whirlpool to separate the break, on the day it was late and the chill rate in testing had surppsed my expectations based on very dodgy math after googling the coeficient of heat transfer thru different metals..

afaik copper is 40 x better at heat transfer than SS.. so a copper pipe hex would be way more efficient, and one with longer tubes is cheaper, i had ebayed 500mm long tubes so needed 28 x end n T components to plumb up a 7m length..
also 28 pre run leak tests long pipe cleaning brushes can be got thru dairy supliers i got a link to a goat milking supplier with long brushes

[setmash]

Very interesting thanks - yes saw those guys here with more pics - the welds do look a bit average but i think they would be fine.

http://utahbiodieselsupply.com/brewingfilters.php

These alos look very good - though probably wouldnt work in my kettle as i need it to be offset

http://www.stainlessbrewing.com/Hop-Spi ... p_123.html

http://www.stainlessbrewing.com/Hop-Spi ... p_158.html

If you had a spider with a rigid structure that would solve a lot of your problems.

If hop utilisation is good enough, this solves a lot of issues. If another fine filter was added to the output of the vessel (as a hop strainer) this would catch the rest of the break (assuming it doesnt clog) and would make a plate chiller a dream to use as no material would enter it and thus no clogs and a doddle to clean. You could recirculate through the PC and back in to the spider to steralise the PC. So all you would need to do to take care of the PC is to back flush it with warm water as part of the cleaning cycle and hey presto......any thoughts on this ?

[Fil]

What is the goal, to remove as much break before the fv? or to set up to use a highly efficient PC with minimal risk of blockage?

I dont think its possible to avoid cold break inside a pc as its going to be forming inside when the beer is chilled down sufficiently.

and if you use an efficient plate chiller you will be down to pitching temps before you have had the opportunity to recirculate thru any filter medium sufficient to scrub the beer brite

afaik there is no detriment having break material in the FV in fact it can supply the yeast with nutrient.

Hop debris is however unwanted and the hop spider will keep that out
Rigid = better ?? i dunno, the recirculation worked, but weighing down the bag with some copper tube, or even a copper frame may also do just as well?

However with your ultra shiney keg, id be tempted to go loose hops and pop in a perforated SS FB covered with #30 or #40 mesh with a hop bed above it should provide u with a pretty good filter bed ? and if slightly concave (domed) used upside down, could just basket the hops for very easy removal ..

[scotia]

Has anyone experience of circulating through a plate chiller and does it clog up every 5 mins ? Downside of a counter flow is that they are not as fast and wort is lost in them at the end of cooling/transfer. However with my system design it will hardly ever need cleaning or sanitizing as that will be done as part of the process.

Appreciate any feedback....

Hop filter with 120 mesh prior to exchanger


Two outlets one higher up the cone for use with pelletised hops or use the other for whole hops after you have collected the wart close the valve you have been using then on the l/h side an inlet for filtered water to flush out the pipework, filter and cooler enabling you to collect the rest of the wart left within.

[bod]

F******************************CK!!! thats an amzing brew system Scotia!!

[setmash]

Thanks guys. Have to say this changes things for me. I had no idea that cold break was actually OK in the FV. Ive always read that people want it kept in the copper.

I want to make the process as fast and as hassle free as possible - after all im a bloke. Ive never used a PC before and read that people go to all sorts of lengths to prepare them and clean them. Ideally Id just like to re-circulate for 15 mins with boiling wort and then back flush for a bit to clean.

Would this scenario work do you think ?

Normal hop filter (fairly course) at bottom of kettle - great idea to invert.
Just like Scotia have a fine hop filter on the input to the PC. Scotia will you wrap 120 mesh around the centre ? - how will you clean it ? Take it apart every time its used or just flush ?

Boil as normal with hops
15 mins before end re-circulate through PC to steralise.
Pump through filter and PC to cool and in to FV
Back flush with hot water through PC (no other action needed with PC? or will i need to use cleaning solution etc ?)
Clean the filter

job done.

What do you think ?

[Aleman]

You will get protein deposition on the plates, You must clean this off . . . Hot Oxiclean or (even better) hot PBW for 10 minutes . . .flush . . . .flush the other way . . .Job Done

0.5mm filter (#40 Mesh) before plate chiller

[scotia]

Scotia will you wrap 120 mesh around the centre ? - how will you clean it ? Take it apart every time its used or just flush ?

?

I intend on cleaning after use by dismantling the filter housing (three RJT fittings) and I shall have fine mesh wrapped around a perforated tube held in place with a couple of rings as for the heat exchanger that will be back flushed with the saved hot water from cooling the wort that will have been stored in the HLT then dropped into a bucket of cleaning/steralising solution.

[Fil]

for easy cleaning after removing debris rinsing and back flushing, could be achieved by recirculating a small volume of pbw made up with warm water from the chiller exit followed by a 2nd rinse thru? so could be done all in place..

for an off the shelf fine inline filter have u checked out this lil beauty..
http://www.brewershardware.com/Trub-Strainer/
think its what Scotia has used??

[setmash]

Great so it looks like i could use a PC and not have to take it off the rig. Back flush then flush again with warm PBW then flush with clean water.

A PC will sanitize OK by re-circulating boiling wort for 15 mins or so, should do, dont see why not....im answering my own question lol.

I will put a normal filter in to the bottom of the keg as a first stage filter to catch the big crap and then an inline fine filter to the PC. I need to source an inline filter like Scotia's marvel. Found these trub filters https://www.brewershardware.com/Trub-Strainer/ but by the time you get that to the UK and sort the Tri camps out we will be talking £150+. Other option is to use a Blichmann hop rocket and wrap some fine mesh around the course filter in that - they are £120....any other ideas ?

Best PC'er ? Mr Lard has a nice long 125KW one for £85....