Blichmann beer gun robbing me of Carbs

[faeyd]

All,

The last few beers I have conditioned in cornies and then popped them into bottles with a beer gun so I can share a few. The problem is... when I condition in the bottle I get a nice head with pretty standard CO2 levels. However, even if Carb up the ales in the corny to near 18psi (should be fizzier than sherbet dropped in cola) the gun transfer process seems to rob it of it's ability to deliver a nice head when poured much later from the bottle.

I've added some Torrified wheat, done the 18psi thing, etc and it just doesn't present as nicely as bottle conditioned or direct keg served. Any thoughts?

Jeff

[roscoe]

what temperature do you chill your beer to when bottling ?
how foamy is your bottling ?

[faeyd]

It's not bad at 10 degrees for the transfer but there was some due to it being carbed very high to try and offset the flatness. I've had zero foam before at 2 degrees and a standard carbed ale (around 10 psi for 2 weeks to suck up the CO2).

[roscoe]

I usually bottle at 0-2oC and its fine for all beers, although wheats/lagers are a challenge at higher 2.5/3 vols CO2
for fizzyish IPAs I over carb a little to offset loses and fill bottle more or less up to brim if its not foaming
as usual first few bottles let keg equalise to target pressure after say 10 bottles things steady out and I can up the speed and rattle the bottles out

you don't get the 'POP' of a bottle condition when opened, but it has the same level of carbonation in the beer

[faeyd]

That explains a lot Roscoe. Because there is indeed no POP. The beer is lively on the tongue and tingles like a decent carbed beer. It's just the head is woeful. Do you get a nice foam when pouring that hangs around after these methods?

I'll also drop to 2 degrees for all future bottling just to ensure minimal action.

[Waffty]

Could it be a detergent (or similar) related issue?

I had issues when I first started out, my issue was tracked to residual cleaning products left in the bottle. Detergent is known to reduce head retention. So could it be a difference in your bottling setup, which is reducing your head retention? You can buy a heading compound, which will help with head retention if need be.

[roscoe]

The head is fine in beer bottled using a beer gun, like you say tingles on the tongue, opening the bottle gives a 'light smoke' but as I mentioned don't leave the normal neck headspace I fill it pretty much to top.

The only time head reduced for me was with a Landlord clone using 100% Golden Promise and carb'd deliberately to a lowish level, had to do the high pour to stir up the head.

On saying that my other problem is too much foam pouring from kegs, but thats cos I can't be bothered using extra beer line and balancing the dispense.

My 2p worth is many bottle carb'd are actually producing higher Co2 vols than expected and few bottle carb colleagues prefer the forced but lower levels of carb. Although the game changes doing very fizzy lagers/wheats !

I also avoid filling into warm bottles. Not a big problem, but if I use a bottle washer with warm water, I stack the bottles in a cold box just to recool down, anything to stop the beer getting angry !

That explains a lot Roscoe. Because there is indeed no POP. The beer is lively on the tongue and tingles like a decent carbed beer. It's just the head is woeful. Do you get a nice foam when pouring that hangs around after these methods?

I'll also drop to 2 degrees for all future bottling just to ensure minimal action.

[faeyd]

Waffty - I will look at the methos as Starsan does leave a little bubble residue in the.

Roscoe: Perhaps the neck space is a factor on this one. I am just used to robust heads from bottle conditioned and keg served. The beer is telling me it is carbed but only on the tongue.

Happily I have filled all my bottles and will do a Citra this weekend and that will just be served from keg (long hoses and well balanced ).
Jeff