No sparge mashing ??

The forum for discussing all kinds of brewing paraphernalia.
User avatar
DC
Lost in an Alcoholic Haze
Posts: 709
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:52 pm
Location: Newcastle

No sparge mashing ??

Post by DC » Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:38 am

Hey all, I am looking to do my first brew in 2 years this weekend and I have been thinking of doing a "No Sparge mash" as I now have a bigger 70L boiler and want to cut the brewday time down. If my initial amount of water required for a 23 litre brew length is 30.6 L for say 4 to 5 kilos of grain. How do I work out how much extra water I need to use up front if I am doing a "No sparge" mash???

Sorry if this is the wrong section

Cheers DC :wink:
FV No 1: Nowt
FV No 2: Nowt
FV No 3: Nowt
FV No 4: Nowt
Pressure Barrel No 1: Nowt
Conditioning: Nowt
Drinking: Nowt
Planning:
Yeast Bank: SafAle S04, Youngs Cider Yeast.
Image

gobuchul

Re: No sparge mashing ??

Post by gobuchul » Sat Aug 15, 2015 9:52 am

Since I got a 50 litre mash tun I was thinking about trying this.

As I understand it you will have to use extra grain to make up for the loss of efficiency.

Although this guy doesn't seem to have any problems. http://brulosophy.com/how-i-brew/proces ... ge-method/

sbond10
Even further under the Table
Posts: 2999
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 6:42 pm
Location: Warrington England usually drunk or being mithered by my 2yr old or wife

Re: No sparge mashing ??

Post by sbond10 » Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:24 am

Use biabacus calculator that should work

User avatar
Jocky
Even further under the Table
Posts: 2738
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:50 pm
Location: Epsom, Surrey, UK

Re: No sparge mashing ??

Post by Jocky » Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:58 am

Measure the deadspace in your mash tun, and then allow for the grain to absorb 1l per kg.

So for 5kg of grain with a 2 litre deadspace that's a total of 7 litres loss.

Adding that your 30.6l boil length you need 37.6 litres liquor total to go through your MT. So mashing at 2.5l/kg you start with 12.5l and then top up with 25.1l.

However, unless you are making quite a weak beer I think you might need a bit more grain than that.
Ingredients: Water, Barley, Hops, Yeast, Seaweed, Blood, Sweat, The swim bladder of a sturgeon, My enemies tears, Scenes of mild peril, An otter's handbag and Riboflavin.

User avatar
DC
Lost in an Alcoholic Haze
Posts: 709
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:52 pm
Location: Newcastle

Re: No sparge mashing ??

Post by DC » Sat Aug 15, 2015 3:22 pm

I have worked out my water requirements on the batch sparge calculator here on Jims, so it just a case of putting the full 35 litres of water in mash tun and adding grain and not doing any sparge?


Image

Cheers DC
Last edited by DC on Sat Aug 15, 2015 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
FV No 1: Nowt
FV No 2: Nowt
FV No 3: Nowt
FV No 4: Nowt
Pressure Barrel No 1: Nowt
Conditioning: Nowt
Drinking: Nowt
Planning:
Yeast Bank: SafAle S04, Youngs Cider Yeast.
Image

AnthonyUK

Re: No sparge mashing ??

Post by AnthonyUK » Sat Aug 15, 2015 3:32 pm

I use around 35l for a 23l batch when I BIAB so seems about right.

sbond10
Even further under the Table
Posts: 2999
Joined: Wed May 09, 2012 6:42 pm
Location: Warrington England usually drunk or being mithered by my 2yr old or wife

Re: No sparge mashing ??

Post by sbond10 » Sat Aug 15, 2015 10:48 pm

Yea mines coming up at 42 litres on a calculatoron my system but ive not brewed before so I'd rather go with Anthony s calculations

User avatar
Jocky
Even further under the Table
Posts: 2738
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2011 6:50 pm
Location: Epsom, Surrey, UK

Re: No sparge mashing ??

Post by Jocky » Sun Aug 16, 2015 11:04 am

DC wrote:I have worked out my water requirements on the batch sparge calculator here on Jims, so it just a case of putting the full 35 litres of water in mash tun and adding grain and not doing any sparge?

Cheers DC
Two ways - a full no sparge uses the full volume of water for the mash.
Or you can do what I described above and mash with less water and then top up with the rest of the volume at the end of the mash.
Ingredients: Water, Barley, Hops, Yeast, Seaweed, Blood, Sweat, The swim bladder of a sturgeon, My enemies tears, Scenes of mild peril, An otter's handbag and Riboflavin.

User avatar
Aleman
It's definitely Lock In Time
Posts: 6132
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:56 am
Location: Mashing In Blackpool, Lancashire, UK

Re: No sparge mashing ??

Post by Aleman » Sun Aug 16, 2015 12:23 pm

A true "No Sparge" mash uses the normal Liquor to grain ratio (In my case 3 to 1) you simply open the valve on the mash tun at the end of the mash and run off the remaining mash liquor (Usually at about 1.075 to 1.080), you then dilute this with an appropriate amount of water to hit your desired Pre Boil Volume, as it is incredibly wasteful of grain ( around 50% efficient) you need much more grain to make up your final brew length.

Using your all your liquor at the beginning, or topping up at the end of the mash , is not no sparge, but is "Full Volume" Mashing ;)

User avatar
DC
Lost in an Alcoholic Haze
Posts: 709
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:52 pm
Location: Newcastle

Re: No sparge mashing ??

Post by DC » Sun Aug 16, 2015 5:54 pm

Hi Aleman, so if I wanted to do a "Full volume" mash would I just add the full amount of water required for the boil in my case the 30.6 L too my mash tun ? Would I need to add any more grain if I am adding the full boil volume of water to my mash tun ?

Cheers DC :wink:
FV No 1: Nowt
FV No 2: Nowt
FV No 3: Nowt
FV No 4: Nowt
Pressure Barrel No 1: Nowt
Conditioning: Nowt
Drinking: Nowt
Planning:
Yeast Bank: SafAle S04, Youngs Cider Yeast.
Image

User avatar
Aleman
It's definitely Lock In Time
Posts: 6132
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:56 am
Location: Mashing In Blackpool, Lancashire, UK

Re: No sparge mashing ??

Post by Aleman » Sun Aug 16, 2015 7:03 pm

No more grain should be required.

I was surprised at just how good Full Volume Mashing is . . . although in my case with only having had the one batch under my belt . . . and that using a Braumeister, it's difficult to say, but I was easily hitting my volume and gravity targets

Oakey22

Re: No sparge mashing ??

Post by Oakey22 » Sun Aug 16, 2015 8:28 pm

Aleman wrote:No more grain should be required.

I was surprised at just how good Full Volume Mashing is . . . although in my case with only having had the one batch under my belt . . . and that using a Braumeister, it's difficult to say, but I was easily hitting my volume and gravity targets
What sort of efficiency do you get with full volume Tony? Thinking it might speed my brew day up a little

User avatar
vacant
Even further under the Table
Posts: 2186
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:39 pm

Re: No sparge mashing ??

Post by vacant » Sun Aug 16, 2015 9:27 pm

Aleman wrote:No more grain should be required.
I think that may be down to better recirculation so the OP may well need more grain.

But all else being equal, I'd suggest it is in the order of just 7%:

Take 35 ltr total liquor and 5 Kg of grain in the mash tun which will retain 5 ltr of wort, so 30 ltr to the boiler

Scenario 1 - target is to sparge a single 30 ltr

Add 35 ltr full volume, mash
Once fully saturated 30/35 of sugars can be drained = 86%
The wort in the grain retains 14% of the sugars

Scenario 2 - target is to sparge two 15 litres

Add 12 ltr, mash, add 8 ltr for first sparge
Once fully saturated, 15/20 of the sugar can be drained = 75%
5/20 of the sugar remains in the grain because 5 ltr of wort remains in the grain
Add the remaining 15 ltr
Once fully saturated 15/20 * 5/20 can be drained = 18%
75 + 18 = 93%
The wort in the grain now retains 7% of the sugars
I brew therefore I ... I .... forget

User avatar
orlando
So far gone I'm on the way back again!
Posts: 7201
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:22 pm
Location: North Norfolk: Nearest breweries All Day Brewery, Salle. Panther, Reepham. Yetman's, Holt

Re: No sparge mashing ??

Post by orlando » Mon Aug 17, 2015 7:41 am

Batch sparging is an alternative, but does take a few minutes longer than no sparge.
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

Fermenting:
Conditioning:
Drinking: Southwold Again,

Up Next: John Barleycorn (Barley Wine)
Planning: Winter drinking Beer

daf

Re: No sparge mashing ??

Post by daf » Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:34 am

Efficiency around 80%.

Start with 35 litres, finish with 25 in the FV.

Post Reply