Blichmann BoilCoil - any way to get this to work in UK?

[Garren]

Hi,

I am new to the forum.
This is is my first post but I have been brewing for a while. Hopefully someone can help with my question and I can return the favor by answering some of the other posts.

I have obtained a 240v Blichmann BoilCoil and have been looking at options at getting it to work in the UK. It is essentially just a heating element, be it rated at 3750 Watts at 240V. I only brew 30l (ish) batches so not a massive amount of water to heat. What I would like to experiment with, is what exactly do I have to put through it to get it to boil my wort (in terms of electricity) and can sufficient power be drawn from a standard UK socket rated max 13 Amps? Not really worried about operating at full capacity as my research shows standard UK sockets will not cope before something either pops or catches fire...

I have been looking at voltage regulators etc, is there any kind of ready-made device I can just connect up and adjust until I get the power I need (turn up gradually from zero until it boils or something pops and I give up on the idea).

Would appreciate any help you can give, cheers G

[Fil]

You could consider employing a power controller to cut the power to the element??
but even i baulk at recommending that as a solution. a slip of the dial and your risking blowing fuses and tripping mcb's.

really you need a 16A supply socket fitting and thats a job for the proffesionals these days.. unless you really know what your doing and can carry off a "That was like that when i moved in that was.." convincingly to fire investigators..

for power controller options the simplest.cheapest is to use a resistance controlled SSR instead of applying a low dc voltage across its control terminals to turn on you connect a variable resistor/potentiometer or pot to dial up and down the power it allows through its power terminals to drive your load.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VolTage-Resis ... Swo4pYPUzR

and its a '500k ohm linear pot' you need to connect over terminals 3, and 4 to dial up and down the power over terminals 1, and 2 ..
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1K-1M-ohm-Lin ... bD1RCYU0PQ

pop one of these in the box to indicate the output levels..

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Amp-Volt-Mete ... Sw4s9Xk1ca

BUT dont run it off a 13a socket unless you have a ready supply of fuses at hand and dont mind having to reset all the alarm clocks etc a few times during a brew.

I have no idea how much it would cost to get a 16a socket installed but if you can afford blitchman kit its got to be within reach

links for illustration ive not bought from the sellers they just appeared at the top of quick search lists..

[Garren]

Thankyou very much for your help, will take apart the socket near the cooker to see what that is rated as. If higher than 13a, might be on to something. Will update when I have some progress (or not). Thanks again, G

[jaroporter]

to save you taking apart your kitchen, if you can plug your phone or toaster into it, it's not gonna be up to the task..

i'd just echo what fil said really, best would be to get a commando/caravan socket installed. doesn't need to be a big/expensive job - if it's not inconvenient, you can get it installed next to the fuseboard - if you've got a spare way available even better - and it should be a quick inexpensive job. you could then use a caravan lead to get to the brewing area (not an elegant solution in all cases of course!)

once you've got a suitable power supply you can use a SSVR like fil suggested (or PWM, etc.) to control the boil strength, knowing that you can safely use full power to get to the boil quicker before dialing back (probably only need 2,5-3kw dependant to boil 30l)

[CCRacer]

Be patient if you are thinking of buying a BoilCoil and shipping it over to the UK. I was speaking to the people at Blichmann as one of my friends regularly goes to the states with work and I was planning to get him to bring one back for me. They informed me that they are currently going through the CE marking status so they can officially import them to the UK with the proper certification etc. This way, should you buy one in the UK and connect it to your supply via a proper socket, if you have a fire or electrical issue your home insurance will pay up. Buying one from them directly or one of their agents in the US will require you to pay at least 10% import duty and the VAT on the value of the item plus carriage. Then you've got to convert it to a UK type socket and get your outlet sorted for it to plug into. If you did it this way and then had a fire or issues your insurance company wouldn't pay out. I've seen this happen more than a dozen times with things like this but not with a brewing set up yet.

[bobsbeer]

The easy way to see what power is going to your cooker is to look in your fuse panel. It will be marked in there.

[rpt]

If you have to ask these questions about electricity then you should get a professional in. But on what basis can you say that an insurance company wouldn't pay out?

[Kev888]

If the coil is truly 3750 Watts at 240V then this will draw around 15.6amps, so plugging it into a domestic 13amp socket (or using a standard domestic 13amp plug) isn't really a good idea. It will probably work, since the fuse will survive small overloads for ages, and you 'may' get away with it with high quality plugs and sockets, but it is going outside their rating and especially with the durations involved there is a very real risk of overheating. Cheap sockets can struggle and fail quickly even at 13amps or less. EDIT some people may tell you its not so bad because UK supplies are now nominally only 230v, but actually thats just a specification fudge - in reality our supplies haven't changed, they can be over 250v and still be within specification.

If blichmann could be due to make a UK-socket compatible version that may be worth checking out - if it has enough power for the job it would be a lot simpler and cheaper. If not then ideally a dedicated MCB and circuit from your consumer unit (or an additional small one, such as used for garages or showers etc) to either a permanently wired outlet or an industrial ceeform socket would be my choice. Though officially you need to be qualified for part P (or work with local authority testers) to do anything with the consumer unit these days, even if you are capable. You could instead add a suitably rated MCB-protected outlet to an existing power circuit if that is allowed these days (not 100% sure if it is, so check first), or if there is already an unused cooker/immersion/shower or other radial circuit in the vicinity which could be re-purposed to a suitable outlet then that could be a winner too.

In theory you could also adapt the appliance itself with power control circuitry to reduce the power drawn. These aren't trivial amounts of current or power though, so your average light dimmer won't be enough, possibly there could be something made for power tools, but it should really be something which couldn't be accidentally turned too high. Theres also the possibility of more stress being put on the element if the controller uses an unkind waveform, so some research would be needed.

[Kev888]

IBut on what basis can you say that an insurance company wouldn't pay out?

Policies sometimes resist paying if wiring work has been carried out which needed certification by a competent person, but hasn't got it. This is part of the building regulations, some say that not having the certification itself contravenes the regs, though others say they have only been contravened if the work is non-compliant; I wouldn't want to bank on winning the later argument though. Of course this needs to be evident and also done after these regulations/part P came in - the rules aren't retrospective for older work.

There are many minor works which don't require this degree of certification (though they should still be documented). Though I understand claims relating to anything of this type (sub-standard wiring, or overloading a socket with a dangerous appliance), may still run into trouble if potentially done knowingly or through excessive negligence.

[themadhippy]

The other wiggle room for insurers is if the product doesn't have a ce mark.

[jaroporter]

There are many minor works which don't require this degree of certification

..are you suggesting that a non-registered but savvy installer could weave a way around this very situation.. ?

[Kev888]

..are you suggesting that a non-registered but savvy installer could weave a way around this very situation.. ?

It could probably be done quite legitimately if there is an existing circuit of sufficient capacity that a suitable outlet could be fed by. If not outside or in the bathroom, many such minor works are allowed provided they are done to regulations. In theory a test/check form should still be completed, which many people would struggle to do, but these haven't been so stringently enforced.

Alterations/additions to the consumer unit or new circuits are notifiable though. The OPs requirements are modest so new circuits may not be needed. But people wanting to run a few or more elements may find it harder to supply these from existing circuits. There are some DIYers who buy old red and black cable and old/used hardware to make their work appear to predate these restrictions, but that is not legitimate so very much at their own risk. It may be hard to claim innocence should this be discovered after a disaster.

[Fil]

every UK insurance policy includes a clause that allows insurers to refuse all claims should they want based on pertinent information. If you failed to supply information to the insurer they deem relevant after the effect, regardless of whether your aware its pertinent or not, its your fault and no claim need be paid.

iirc known as the Umbres fidies rule, which afaik is a bastardisation of latin for 'utmost good faith' which in the UK puts the responsibility of full disclosure firmly on the shoulders of the insured so If you cut your finger in the morning and failed to inform your insurer and later that day blood dripped onto an electric good and started a fire your failure to inform the insurer of your cut finger can negate your cover, it needent make sense, its at the whim of the insurer.

[rpt]

every UK insurance policy includes a clause that allows insurers to refuse all claims should they want based on pertinent information. If you failed to supply information to the insurer they deem relevant after the effect, regardless of whether your aware its pertinent or not, its your fault and no claim need be paid.

iirc known as the Umbres fidies rule, which afaik is a bastardisation of latin for 'utmost good faith' which in the UK puts the responsibility of full disclosure firmly on the shoulders of the insured so If you cut your finger in the morning and failed to inform your insurer and later that day blood dripped onto an electric good and started a fire your failure to inform the insurer of your cut finger can negate your cover, it needent make sense, its at the whim of the insurer.

Not true any more. See the Insurance Act 2015.

[Fil]

every UK insurance policy includes a clause that allows insurers to refuse all claims should they want based on pertinent information. If you failed to supply information to the insurer they deem relevant after the effect, regardless of whether your aware its pertinent or not, its your fault and no claim need be paid.

iirc known as the Umbres fidies rule, which afaik is a bastardisation of latin for 'utmost good faith' which in the UK puts the responsibility of full disclosure firmly on the shoulders of the insured so If you cut your finger in the morning and failed to inform your insurer and later that day blood dripped onto an electric good and started a fire your failure to inform the insurer of your cut finger can negate your cover, it needent make sense, its at the whim of the insurer.

Not true any more. See the Insurance Act 2015.

will take your word for it,, once upon atime i had to read such things, given the choice i will pass however.. good to know btw...