Fermenters rated/compared

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chris2012
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Re: Fermenters rated/compared

Post by chris2012 » Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:29 pm

McMullan, that sounds cool re. naturally carbing and pressure transfer. At some point I'd like to do something like that.
I bought one of the kegland spunding valves a while ago, I need to play with.

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MashBag
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Re: Fermenters rated/compared

Post by MashBag » Mon Apr 26, 2021 5:08 pm

McMullan wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:01 pm
I wasn't ever able to justify the cost of SS FVs. A complete waste of money mainly, for home brew. They don't produce better beer. And some look like more hassle than they're worth. I was happily using plastic FVs for years, until Kegmenters arrived. Very simple design that works very well. My main use is to seal towards the end of fermentation to naturally carbonate, then pressure transfer to kegs or beer gun some bottles.
I have to say these have got me thinking. They have opened the door to bottling bright too.

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An Ankoù
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Re: Fermenters rated/compared

Post by An Ankoù » Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:44 am

MashBag wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:09 pm
chris2012 wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:42 pm
I don't think I saw 'closed transfers' mentioned as one of the advantages of certain SS fermenters. (I don't think I've seen any plastic ones you can do that with?)
There is a clue there!
I've never seen the need to do closed transfers as I don't brew NEIPAs, but I think the Speidel fermenter would take a decent pressure, the plastic looks as thick as a PB.
I'm cheap. Just give me beer.

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Re: Fermenters rated/compared

Post by McMullan » Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:21 pm

An Ankoù wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:44 am
MashBag wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:09 pm
chris2012 wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:42 pm
I don't think I saw 'closed transfers' mentioned as one of the advantages of certain SS fermenters. (I don't think I've seen any plastic ones you can do that with?)
There is a clue there!
I've never seen the need to do closed transfers as I don't brew NEIPAs, but I think the Speidel fermenter would take a decent pressure, the plastic looks as thick as a PB.
It definitely helps if you've got a naturally carbed beer to transfer from the FV. Under a little pressure, that is.

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Jocky
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Re: Fermenters rated/compared

Post by Jocky » Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:28 am

An Ankoù wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:44 am
MashBag wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:09 pm
chris2012 wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:42 pm
I don't think I saw 'closed transfers' mentioned as one of the advantages of certain SS fermenters. (I don't think I've seen any plastic ones you can do that with?)
There is a clue there!
I've never seen the need to do closed transfers as I don't brew NEIPAs, but I think the Speidel fermenter would take a decent pressure, the plastic looks as thick as a PB.
Both the 12 and 20 litres speidel fermenters definitely take pressure, although they’re not as strong as a PB.

I had the bottom of a 12 round out after I used it for ageing some beer with Brett.
It did nothing for 3 months then suddenly one day I found it wobbling around.

I put an S30 in the lid of a 20 litre fermenter too, and used that for some top pressure before opening for dry hopping etc to avoid oxygen ingress.

I’ve never found a difference between pressure transferring and just using the tap on the bottom of my fermenter and gravity. However I do rack into purged kegs and I don’t use a siphon that can force air bubbles through the finished beer. If you have to rack from floor level (e.g. from the bottom port of a heavy conical) I’d think pressure transferring would be more useful then.
Ingredients: Water, Barley, Hops, Yeast, Seaweed, Blood, Sweat, The swim bladder of a sturgeon, My enemies tears, Scenes of mild peril, An otter's handbag and Riboflavin.

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SMASH3R
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Re: Fermenters rated/compared

Post by SMASH3R » Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:29 pm

I've had a little bit of infection in my past two or three brews. It hasn't been a massive problem as I've just got them into the corny keg quick and got mates rounds to guzzle them in a week, but I have another brew on now and I'm worried it will return.

I've been very clean, and used a lot of bleach, and can only put it down to one or two possibilities:
- scratched inside of fermenter, although I've not been able to find any obvious scratches, or;
- nasties inside the ball level valve tap.

The fermenter is the easiest option to swap out, and I've had mine for 25 years. I've had good value from them!
Hence looking on this thread.

The other option of the tap; unfortunately I can't disassemble the tap, so I run a couple of litres of hot wort through it near the end of the boil in the hop that sterilizes anything. If I need to replace the tap, I think I will try to source a ball valve that can be stripped and cleaned.

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MashBag
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Re: Fermenters rated/compared

Post by MashBag » Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:18 am

SMASH3R wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:29 pm
I've had a little bit of infection in my past two or three brews. It hasn't been a massive problem as I've just got them into the corny keg quick and got mates rounds to guzzle them in a week, but I have another brew on now and I'm worried it will return.

I've been very clean, and used a lot of bleach, and can only put it down to one or two possibilities:
- scratched inside of fermenter, although I've not been able to find any obvious scratches, or;
- nasties inside the ball level valve tap.

The fermenter is the easiest option to swap out, and I've had mine for 25 years. I've had good value from them!
Hence looking on this thread.

The other option of the tap; unfortunately I can't disassemble the tap, so I run a couple of litres of hot wort through it near the end of the boil in the hop that sterilizes anything. If I need to replace the tap, I think I will try to source a ball valve that can be stripped and cleaned.
What volume?

I ask cos I do think 25l fermentation in best in wide mouth wine fermenters.

And do you need a tap at all?

Cleaning. Do you JUST use bleach?
Last edited by MashBag on Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Jocky
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Re: Fermenters rated/compared

Post by Jocky » Tue Sep 28, 2021 3:53 pm

SMASH3R wrote:
Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:29 pm
I've had a little bit of infection in my past two or three brews. It hasn't been a massive problem as I've just got them into the corny keg quick and got mates rounds to guzzle them in a week, but I have another brew on now and I'm worried it will return.

I've been very clean, and used a lot of bleach, and can only put it down to one or two possibilities:
- scratched inside of fermenter, although I've not been able to find any obvious scratches, or;
- nasties inside the ball level valve tap.

The fermenter is the easiest option to swap out, and I've had mine for 25 years. I've had good value from them!
Hence looking on this thread.

The other option of the tap; unfortunately I can't disassemble the tap, so I run a couple of litres of hot wort through it near the end of the boil in the hop that sterilizes anything. If I need to replace the tap, I think I will try to source a ball valve that can be stripped and cleaned.
I'd bet money it's the tap.

Almost every single kind of tap retains a little bit of liquid that you can't easily wash out without stripping them down. Then it goes all mouldy and unless you're putting a lot of heat into them it won't kill what's in there.

Butterfly valves are the exception, they don't need to be stripped to clean.

Ball valves are cheaper than butterfly valves, and can be taken apart in seconds - I split the two piece taps on my boiler and fermenter every time I clean them.
Ingredients: Water, Barley, Hops, Yeast, Seaweed, Blood, Sweat, The swim bladder of a sturgeon, My enemies tears, Scenes of mild peril, An otter's handbag and Riboflavin.

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MashBag
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Re: Fermenters rated/compared

Post by MashBag » Wed Sep 29, 2021 8:25 am

I'd bet money it's not a scratch

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SMASH3R
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Re: Fermenters rated/compared

Post by SMASH3R » Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:28 pm

MashBag wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 7:18 am
What volume?

I ask cos I do think 25l fermentation in best in wide mouth wine fermenters.

And do you need a tap at all?

Cleaning. Do you JUST use bleach?
22-24L, depending on my guess of how much wort/water is left in the mash tun when I stop adding water. I just let the last bits run out and it's close enough for my purposes.

I do use a wide mouth wine fermenter. I put the lid on, but scrunch a clean piece of tin foil around the top. Not air tight, but tight enough to stop fruit flies getting in, which have been a nemesis in the past.
BUT, the infection I'm talking about is mother of vinegar type jelly on the top, and not an infection caused by fruit flies, which just turns all your lovely beer into vinegar (vinegar flies being another name for them).

After doing a brew, I strip all my kit (except the cheap ball valve, which can't be stripped), and clean all the inside of my vessels with cheap white Aldi oxy cleaner and a brand new dish cloth. It's also left to soak for a bit, and then rinsed out with cold tap water, dried and put away. The dish cloth goes into the kitchen sink and the old cloth from the kitchen is chucked and replaced.

Come brew day, I chuck in a 2 litres of cheap thin bleach from Tesco and fill the fermenter to the brim with cold water and leave for several hours whilst I do my brew. I also put any pipes, fittings, measuring cylinders etc etc in. The fermenter is already spotless, and I'm assuming that there is enough bleach in the solution to kill any nasties given the contact time. Come time for using the fermenter, I pour all the bits out including the bleach solution into a clean bucket. I rinse the fermenter a sufficient number of times to get the bleach out, and rinse off each piece of equipment as I need it.

I don't sterilize the mash tun or the kettle, as I thought the boil should take care of anything that was in both of those. But they are very visually clean having followed the oxy-cleaner method since the last brew. I do give them an inspection before use and usually a simple rinse with some cold water is sufficient.

Anyway.
This is getting a bit off topic.
I've ordered two new fermenters from BrewUK, and I've also ordered their 3-piece strippable stainless steel ball valve, so I'm just going to change the lot and hopefully that will be the end of unwanted infections. Fermenters are the wide mouth wine, and standard 25l bucket with lid. I'll report back what I think of them.

off topic: I also have Whitelabs 002 and 500 yeasts coming on Tuesday. Yes! I love the 500 Trappist/Chimay yeast, but have never used the 002 Old English/Fuller's ESB, which I have a great hobgoblin clone recipe I can try out with the 002 (it's great with the Trappist yeast btw).

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MashBag
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Re: Fermenters rated/compared

Post by MashBag » Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:52 am

infection caused by fruit flies, which just turns all your lovely beer into vinegar (vinegar flies being another name for them).
Ok. This sounds like a residual acetobactor (vinegar). It can be a bugger to get rid of. Sulphur or steam get rid of it.

I think you will fix it with the replacements.

Also replace any hoses.

Moving forward at need to make sure you don't get a reinfection (very easy) and TBH I don't think bleach & oxy is the best way to go. But everyone will have a preferred option. Caustic truck wash is mine. Spray on, brush with a nylon dish brush, rinse thoroughly. Let vessels dry fully before storage.

Another thought... How long is your beer in primary fermentation for? I would tighten that up too.

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SMASH3R
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Re: Fermenters rated/compared

Post by SMASH3R » Tue Oct 05, 2021 7:19 pm

The goodies arrived today.

The Ritchie wide mouth 5 gal wine fermenter and Youngs 5 gal bucket fermenter with push fit lid seem comparable quality from initial inspection to my 20+ year old kit, so hopefully no concerns.

I've also stripped the stainless ball valve as I thought I could see a bit of award in it. I could as it turns out, so I'm glad I've got that cleaned out as I wouldn't want to damage the seals on it's first outing!

The tubing I use is food grade silicone that I buy in something like 10m lengths, so it gets replaced regularly.


I've been thinking about this over the past few days, and I now recall (stupid for not thinking of this earlier) that I did 5 gal elderflower champagne this summer. Wine fermenter for 1 week, bucket fermenter for 1 week, then into corny keg and force carb. No problems with infection, so that pretty much points to the tap!

Fermentation, I usually do 1 week primary and whatever needed in secondary (7-10 days), then corny keg. I haven't changed this for years, and it's only recent brews I've had a problem with.


Basically, I'm looking forward to consistent brewing again!

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MashBag
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Re: Fermenters rated/compared

Post by MashBag » Wed Oct 06, 2021 7:44 am

I think we are on to something with the elderflower =tap theory.

Fermentation: just thought you might be leaving it is there ages. Certainly not.

Good luck. I reckon you have it licked.

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