Best use of controller probes

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Storm Brewing
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Best use of controller probes

Post by Storm Brewing » Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:17 pm

I am now the proud owner of a shiny box fresh Inkbird 308 but could do with some informed advice best use of the probe?

One of the Inkbirds uses will be to control the temperature of my mash but reading around the subject, there appears to be conflicting views on how best to achieve this? The obvious method (to me) would be to drop the probe directly into the mash but there seems to be a lack of confidence in some quarters that despite its supposed waterproof credentials, total immersion can lead to failure of the probe? Is it possibly the case that this was a problem a few years ago and Inkbird have rectified it??

I have read somewhere (possibly the ‘other’ forum :oops: ) that one method is to tape the probe to the outside of the mash tun and insulate it from outside temperature with a sponge or similar. At the moment this function is performed in my burco/cygnet boiler. I experimented with the probe taped to the outside and insulated and cross checked against readings taken with a conventional lab thermometer.

Not withstanding the wide variation in temperatures in the tun itself (before stirring) there was a wider variation (and a delay in temperature change) for the probe fixed to the outside. The lower temp value recorded on the outside of the tun has the obvious danger of overcooking the malt as the controller will be slow to respond to overheating. I am therefore loathe to go down this route until I have more experience or at least received some first hand advice!!

So two question:
1. Is it safe to put the inkbird probe directly into the mash tun (or FV) later ?
2. Has anybody experience of using controller probes on the outside of FV / mash tun and is it successful?

Many thanks!!

Pete :?

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Re: Best use of controller probes

Post by guypettigrew » Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:32 pm

Hope you're planning another use for your new Inkbird, because controlling the mash temperature by turning the element in the Burco on and off will only cause you problems, sorry to say.

The element will come on and tend to burn the grain at the bottom of the tun unless you have some method for stirring it when the heat's on.

Also, even if you do use the inkbird for this you'll find that, no matter where you put the probe in the mash, it's going to be inaccurate. The mash temperature will drop slowly, then the heater will come on and the mash over the heater will get very warm before the heat moves through the mash to wherever you've placed the probe.

Much, much better to insulate your mash tun well. Get your liquor to the right strike temperature-calculator here-which will get your mash to the right temperature and leave it for however long you want to leave it. Even if it drops a couple of degrees C (which it shouldn't with good insulation) your mash will still go OK.

Apologies for pouring a bit of cold water on your idea but, honestly, using a heating element in a non stirred mash is a recipe for failure.

Guy

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Re: Best use of controller probes

Post by Storm Brewing » Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:28 pm

Thanks Guy

sound advice indeed and thanks for preventing me wasting time chasing a flawed process.

I bought the controller for my fermentation fridge, but taking some of the leg work out of mashing was always going to be a bonus.

Currently my mash methodology is as follows:

Heat burco (with stainless steel false bottom inserted) to strike temperature. Turn off heat and mix in grain. Insulate and leave. After 30 mins, stir grain, check temp and heat if required. Leave for 1 hour and repeat x 2. I usually achieve between 80-90% efficiency depending upon my patience with sparging!

Many thanks

Pete

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Re: Best use of controller probes

Post by IPA » Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:44 pm

For controlling fermentation the only way is to install a thermowell in the FV and insert the probe in it.
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Re: Best use of controller probes

Post by Storm Brewing » Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:37 pm

I have been reading up on Thermowells - can you recommend one?

Cheers!

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Re: Best use of controller probes

Post by guypettigrew » Thu Oct 07, 2021 5:41 pm

Storm Brewing wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:28 pm

Heat burco (with stainless steel false bottom inserted) to strike temperature. Turn off heat and mix in grain. Insulate and leave. After 30 mins, stir grain, check temp and heat if required. Leave for 1 hour and repeat x 2. I usually achieve between 80-90% efficiency depending upon my patience with sparging!
Hi Pete

Not sure what you mean in the bit where you say 'leave for 1 hour and repeat x 2'.

I leave my mash for 90 minutes without stirring and usually get 90% mash efficiency. It would just lose loads of temperature if I opened the tun and stirred it.

My sparge rate is about 0.5 litres/minute.

Have you ever tried just ignoring the mash for 90 minutes and seeing how your efficiency is?

Guy

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Re: Best use of controller probes

Post by IPA » Fri Oct 08, 2021 7:33 am

Storm Brewing wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 4:37 pm
I have been reading up on Thermowells - can you recommend one?

Cheers!
Here is one

https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product ... hermowell/
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dean Martin

1. Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, thoroughly used, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming... "f*ck, what a trip

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Re: Best use of controller probes

Post by guypettigrew » Fri Oct 08, 2021 8:30 am

And your Inkbird probe will fit into it--I've just checked.

Guy

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Re: Best use of controller probes

Post by Storm Brewing » Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:11 pm

Many thanks Guy,
I will checkout the Thermowell!
The 2x refers to 2x one hourly cycles of checking and stirring mash. I've done this on the basis that stirring will spread the heat evenly through the mash otherwise there may be cold spots where mash is less efficient, but if in your experience strike -wrap-lesve for 90 mins delivers 90% efficiency thrn that is certainly worth experimenting with.

Pete

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Re: Best use of controller probes

Post by Storm Brewing » Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:12 pm

Many thanks IPA - will check this out !!

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Re: Best use of controller probes

Post by guypettigrew » Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:29 pm

Storm Brewing wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:11 pm
The 2x refers to 2x one hourly cycles of checking and stirring mash. I've done this on the basis that stirring will spread the heat evenly through the mash otherwise there may be cold spots where mash is less efficient, but if in your experience strike -wrap-lesve for 90 mins delivers 90% efficiency thrn that is certainly worth experimenting with.

Pete
Vigorous stirring when adding the grain to the liquor to get the whole lot to your desired temperature, followed by wrapping it well then giving it a good ignoring for 90 minutes has always suited me. No matter what kit I'm using.

The strike temperature calculator I linked to earlier is incredibly helpful. I put in a desired mash temperature of 67°C and always get a mash temperature of 66°C due to the small temperature losses inevitable when stirring grain into a mash tun with the lid off.

Water treatment to get the right mash pH (something you may not want to get into) is important. Possibly even more important from an efficiency point of view is sparge rate. From your previous posts you've clearly got this right if you're getting 80-90% mash efficiency.

Guy

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Re: Best use of controller probes

Post by Storm Brewing » Fri Oct 08, 2021 5:21 pm

guypettigrew wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:29 pm
Storm Brewing wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 3:11 pm
The 2x refers to 2x one hourly cycles of checking and stirring mash. I've done this on the basis that stirring will spread the heat evenly through the mash otherwise there may be cold spots where mash is less efficient, but if in your experience strike -wrap-lesve for 90 mins delivers 90% efficiency thrn that is certainly worth experimenting with.

Pete
Vigorous stirring when adding the grain to the liquor to get the whole lot to your desired temperature, followed by wrapping it well then giving it a good ignoring for 90 minutes has always suited me. No matter what kit I'm using.

The strike temperature calculator I linked to earlier is incredibly helpful. I put in a desired mash temperature of 67°C and always get a mash temperature of 66°C due to the small temperature losses inevitable when stirring grain into a mash tun with the lid off.

Water treatment to get the right mash pH (something you may not want to get into) is important. Possibly even more important from an efficiency point of view is sparge rate. From your previous posts you've clearly got this right if you're getting 80-90% mash efficiency.

Guy
! sought advice from my local brewshop, a sprinkle of Gypsum seems to do the trick!!

I will definately try your methodology -shorter time and easier. Brew days will never be the same!! :D

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Re: Best use of controller probes

Post by guypettigrew » Fri Oct 08, 2021 7:55 pm

Gypsum is always a good start to treating your raw water.

What's even better is getting it analysed by Wallybrew on here.

Then you can really begin to manage your raw water to get optimum mash parameters. Other than controlling the fermentation temperature, this has been the best upgrade to my brewing.

Guy

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Re: Best use of controller probes

Post by Storm Brewing » Sun Oct 10, 2021 12:54 pm

guypettigrew wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 7:55 pm
Gypsum is always a good start to treating your raw water.

What's even better is getting it analysed by Wallybrew on here.

Then you can really begin to manage your raw water to get optimum mash parameters. Other than controlling the fermentation temperature, this has been the best upgrade to my brewing.

Guy
I followed the link for Wallybrew and accessed his profile. I have looked through a number of his posts but not sure how to get the ball rolling on this??

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Re: Best use of controller probes

Post by guypettigrew » Sun Oct 10, 2021 1:32 pm

Just send him a PM. He'll give you the date he's next running a water analysis and the cost.

You'll need to send him some of your raw water, 500ml is what I send. You'll get the analysis within a few days and can then start using an online water treatment calculator.

Guy

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