My igloo RIMS system - help needed please!

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Cxp073

My igloo RIMS system - help needed please!

Post by Cxp073 » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:15 pm

So, it's been difficult (due to commitments) but I have finally got my system up and running. I am using a brew builder rims tube with a 30mm pt100 and sestos PID.

I had a chance to fire it up for the first time and test with water. I had a problem, however. I don't think the pt100 is touching the water / wort. The output temp was really hot and the process value was very low. I thought the tube would fill to the top and touch the sensor, but I'm wondering if there is an air bubble or perhaps the height of the tub / the output tubing is too low. I would appreciate some thoughts. My other option is a longer pt sensor, but I really don't have the cash.

What do you guys think?

[IMG]//images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/04/29 ... 6017ab.jpg[/IMG]

Cxp073

Re: My igloo RIMS system - help needed please!

Post by Cxp073 » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:16 pm

Btw the sensor in the picture is NOT the pt100. The PT100 30mm sensor is one I got from brew builder

Rhodesy
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Re: My igloo RIMS system - help needed please!

Post by Rhodesy » Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:43 am

What kind of differences were you getting between what was in the MT and the output from the tube? I am in the process of setting up my RIMS and awaiting delivery of my tube and element from MrLard (today I hope :D ) so by no means an expert myself but it could be possible due to the height of the tube? Most (not all) set ups I have seen tend to have the tube lower down and quite often below the MT. I believe they also allow it to prime when lower down before switching the pump on (similar to what I do with my Hop Rocket). Again I am no expert and have yet to try this out myself.

Ps - What are you using to fix the tube to your MT? I have still to decide how I fix the tube to its support. I too have the same cooler as my MT :)

Cxp073

Re: My igloo RIMS system - help needed please!

Post by Cxp073 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:31 pm

I'm going to be writing a full how-to article on my blog so was going to list all parts in detail, but for now the way I fixed the tube to the tun was by using pump clamps from angel homebrew. I then fixed to basic supports using the cup holder clip (off the cooler) and a spare piece of ABS plastic that I cut out from my control box. I am almost certain that my problem is due to the height of the tube. I am going to give it another shot today if possible to see if lowering the tube helps. Only problem will be that I will now need to find a way to raise up the tun, so that when the tube is lowered it does not make contact with the counter top. I could place it in a chair or something similar for now.

Cxp073

Re: My igloo RIMS system - help needed please!

Post by Cxp073 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:08 pm

Well, I lowered it down to as low as practical, but it still gathered air somehow. As it turns out, I think the output of my return hose needs to be a few inches at least above the very top of my RIMS tube. Now my options are either to make a small stand to attach it to on the floor, or make it lay flat on my counter top - any suggestions?

Cxp073

Re: My igloo RIMS system - help needed please!

Post by Cxp073 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:23 pm

I think I am leaning towards horizontal. This will definitely solve my problems. I can easily mount it using the existing mounts on a small sheet of wood. This makes the system more modular, but will eliminate the need for something in my floor.

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Re: My igloo RIMS system - help needed please!

Post by Rhodesy » Fri May 01, 2015 8:44 am

I had some questions in another thread which Fil kindly replied to. He mentioned that the tube should be below liquid level and crucially it should be vertical. Link to the thread viewtopic.php?f=60&t=71150

Cxp073

Re: My igloo RIMS system - help needed please!

Post by Cxp073 » Fri May 01, 2015 4:46 pm

Rhodesy wrote:I had some questions in another thread which Fil kindly replied to. He mentioned that the tube should be below liquid level and crucially it should be vertical. Link to the thread viewtopic.php?f=60&t=71150
thanks rhodesy. I don't think vertical is an option for me oven my brew space. What I did was mounted it in the top of a sheet of rigid plastic, and propped up one end. It is now on a 40 degree angle. The sensor is now sensing everything properly and I have managed to auto tune the system.

One question remains - if I want to ramp the temp, should I just put in the desired temp and let it do its thing, or should I ramp at smaller intervals. I.e 55 right to 65, or 55 to 59, 59 to 62, 62 to 65? The reason i ask is that when it is maintaining a temperature it does so very well. But when I ramp up, say 8 degrees, it sounds like a kettle coming to a boil - the lines shake for a couple seconds and then stop. No major bubbles are present. I don't want the thing to be boiling the wort - perhaps it isn't, but it is getting pretty hot in there. I don't know - have any of you experienced this?

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Re: My igloo RIMS system - help needed please!

Post by Fil » Fri May 01, 2015 11:11 pm

Hello I had to download the pic to get a good view, I think that if you swap the return tube with the sensor point over you may find it works OK ,

any air trapped in the rims tube will rise out of the tube into the hose, the sensor will then be in liquid and measure its temp.

tho that will only work if the 2 triclamp fittings to the side and on top are the same size..

http://www.blichmannengineering.com/sit ... l%20V1.PDF
check out page 5 and its explanation of positioning the rims heater.. not the same animal but im sure the same rules apply..
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Re: My igloo RIMS system - help needed please!

Post by orlando » Sat May 02, 2015 7:28 am

Fil wrote:Hello I had to download the pic to get a good view, I think that if you swap the return tube with the sensor point over you may find it works OK ,

any air trapped in the rims tube will rise out of the tube into the hose, the sensor will then be in liquid and measure its temp.

tho that will only work if the 2 triclamp fittings to the side and on top are the same size..

http://www.blichmannengineering.com/sit ... l%20V1.PDF
check out page 5 and its explanation of positioning the rims heater.. not the same animal but im sure the same rules apply..
I have one and assuming it is identical the problem, at least in mine, is the sensor probe is a little too short, so the wort flows through the return port but doesn't quite hit the sensor. Typically you throttle back the flow, this causes an airlock to form and the probe is effectively measuring mostly air, which is of course lower in temperature than the wort hence the overshoot. The solution is exactly as Fil has described. The two ports are the same so swap them over, this forces the wort to cover the temp probe as it exits through the top outlet. Keep the RIMS tube vertical, this solution works exactly like that. I strap mine to the leg of my brew table using webbing with quick release clips, this way I can quickly dismount to rinse it after I put PBW through it, it's then a simple job to strap it back up.
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Cxp073

My igloo RIMS system - help needed please!

Post by Cxp073 » Sat May 02, 2015 10:38 am

Thanks Fil and Orlando - I think that is the best option for sure. This way, I could also keep it on the side of my igloo cooler. And the height won't matter. The liquid will be forced up through the whole of the tube, and will not cause any air locks. Now, if only I wasn't going away for the weekend I would be straight out there!

But - one question still remains for me. How fast a flow rate do I want to aim for? When I'm doing auto tuning (and indeed circulating the mash) should I be doing wide open (aprx 10 litres (2.5 gallon) per minute), or lower? 10 litres per minute is as fast as my little pump can go, so it would have to be that or lower.

Thanks again guys you have really pulled through for me.

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Re: My igloo RIMS system - help needed please!

Post by Fil » Sat May 02, 2015 11:43 am

Assuming a linear relationship between element power and optimum flow rate through a rims tube ( and tbh i dont know it is linear) the rims rocket (manual linked to above) has a 3.5kw element and needs a minimum flow of 3l per min.....
So whats your elements power ? if circa 3kw i would suggest a minimum of 3l per min too if 1/2 that perhaps 2l per min??

the other factor is you dont want to suck too much on the tun outlet as that could compact the grain and stick your mash.. Now the grainfarther all in one brewpot machine has a simple solution for this, a tube in the FB extending to an inch or so above the grain bed so any excess return liquor not draining thru the grain bed quickly enough simply fills up on top and runs down the tube if it isnt draining ok providing a good pool of liquor to feed the pump..
Image
ist update for months n months..
Fermnting: not a lot..
Conditioning: nowt
Maturing: Challenger smash, and a kit lager
Drinking: dry one minikeg left in the store
Coming Soon Lots planned for the near future nowt for the immediate :(

Cxp073

Re: My igloo RIMS system - help needed please!

Post by Cxp073 » Sat May 02, 2015 12:54 pm

Fil wrote:Assuming a linear relationship between element power and optimum flow rate through a rims tube ( and tbh i dont know it is linear) the rims rocket (manual linked to above) has a 3.5kw element and needs a minimum flow of 3l per min.....
So whats your elements power ? if circa 3kw i would suggest a minimum of 3l per min too if 1/2 that perhaps 2l per min??

the other factor is you dont want to suck too much on the tun outlet as that could compact the grain and stick your mash.. Now the grainfarther all in one brewpot machine has a simple solution for this, a tube in the FB extending to an inch or so above the grain bed so any excess return liquor not draining thru the grain bed quickly enough simply fills up on top and runs down the tube if it isnt draining ok providing a good pool of liquor to feed the pump..
Image
my element is the 3kw element from brewbuilder. When I ran it at about 3l per minute (with the tube horizontal, the temp sensor definitely immersed), it sounded like it was starting to boil in the tube. When I upped the flow rate to about 9l per minute this didn't happen. If it is the flow being too low that is causing the boil, then it is either the case that the sensor is too far away and not reacting quickly enough, or the flow is simply too low and the element is in contact with the water for too long.

I think bringing the sensor to the side outlet would be closer, but I would have to check. The sensor is only 30mm.

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Re: My igloo RIMS system - help needed please!

Post by Fil » Sat May 02, 2015 1:14 pm

the volume of beer in the rims rocket is also much bigger than in a mrlard tube a factor i didnt cater for above.. DOH!

depending on the flow you can manage without a negative impact on the grain bed you might want to consider using a power controller to limit the elements output.

there are a different type of ssr ones which are controlled by a potentiometer or variable resistor rather than a dc drive current. with one of these you can dial up and down the power to the element..

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from= ... e&_sacat=0

add an ebay volt/amp meter, a sticky back dial face and a potiometer and knob and you have a simple power controller..

Image
ist update for months n months..
Fermnting: not a lot..
Conditioning: nowt
Maturing: Challenger smash, and a kit lager
Drinking: dry one minikeg left in the store
Coming Soon Lots planned for the near future nowt for the immediate :(

Cxp073

Re: My igloo RIMS system - help needed please!

Post by Cxp073 » Sat May 02, 2015 3:32 pm

I'd prefer not to add more gizmos really - although it does look cool ;) does anyone here use the 3kw element from Mr Lard on their rims system?

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