PBW - dilution rates and longevity?

[Kev888]

Hi all,

I'm going to order some fivestar PBW in a few weeks, or possibly Sodium Metasilicate and Sodium Percarbonate for a home made 2:1 mix, however I'm struggling to work out the quantities my cleaning regime would need.

Does anyone know what the dilution rates for PBW should be? Also I'd love to know if it keeps for a while and is re-useable after dilution, or is just a one-shot cleaner?

Many thanks
Kev

[Andy]

The blurb states 1oz per US gallon for "single brew" cleaning of a boiler which is roughly 7.5 g/litre.

Datasheet URL -> http://www.kegkits.com/Merchant2/PBW.pdf

I recently used some and went for 2oz / gallon (that was the top end amount listed on the tub) and it cleaned well but in future I'd use the 1oz / gallon ratio.

[Kev888]

Thanks Andy, thats really useful. I'd heard that it varied, presumably due to 'soil load' and soaking vs spraying but I'd not found that data sheet. Even then, manufacturer's claims can sometimes be optimistic so its great to hear that your own experience bears it out.

I'd also not even thought of it as a line cleaner, which the leaflet mentions quite enthusiastically. After my recent 'issues' with neglecting to clean my tap separately I like "negates the need to remove the faucet".

Cheers
kev

[flytact]

I recently bought a small jar of PBW after buying some particularly cruddy cornies as well as thumbing my nose at commercial cleaners for years.
I absolutely love it!
1oz per gallon seems to due the trick.

[Kev888]

Thanks! I'm always a bit cautious of manufacturer's marketing claims so its good to hear it really is good stuff. I'll definately put some on the shopping list then!

Just been running the quantities through conversion calculators. Taking the worst case I can think of, which is to completely fill my FV on one occasion and make a second fresh batch for completely filling the boiler on another, it'd come out at about 10p per pt just spent on PBW. Which isn't unbearable but seems quite a lot on top of the other costs, really - it'd probably come to say £120 per year.

So I could try to brew back-to-back so that i can clean my Fv with the same batch pf PBW as my boiler, I could make a PBW-like cleaner myself from metasilicate and percarbonate for about half the cost, or I could introduce a pump and spray smaller volumes about - which seems to offer the best economies. Or some combo of the three. Hmm,

Cheers
kev

[EccentricDyslexic]

I have just been in email contact with 5star the makers of PBW asking similar questions, apparently it looses its stregnth at 24-48 hours after being made up. - "PBW at no matter what strength will start to lose its effectiveness after 24-48hours.This is due to the release of the oxygenation that is in the product. It also depends on how much soil the PBW takes on while soaking in the keg to know if you should reuse it and what time it sat in the keg." Thats a bugger cus its gonna cost £3 a pop for a cornie full of pbw at full stregnth. So its either make up our our diy stuff or just make up enuff to spray on...

Or maybe just use pbw every nth brew to clean off the more ingraind grime and use caustic soda for regular cleans?

steve

[Andy]

I use cheap Oxyclean for regular cleans.

[Kev888]

Thats incredibly useful to know eccentric - many thanks! I'd heard that oxyclean has a similar effect of the oxygenation petering out so it doesn't surprise me, but I had no idea how long that would take. Hmm, its long enough to do a couple of good soaks in succession or a few shorter ones, but there'd be little point trying to save it between brew days then.

I looked at spraying smaller quantities, but gave up because there was cleaning fluid everywhere with my tanks, whose lids are a little loose fitting. I have seen a DIY CIP thingy for cornies though - basicaly a big bucket with a fountain in that you up-end the cornie over (before switching on!). IIRC there was also some sort of take-off pipe witha grey and black disconnect on for squirting up the tubes too.

I think Andy may have a good answer with the cheap oxygen cleaner though. I tried a percarbonate and soda-crystal mix which I understand is probably fairly equivalent and it seemed much better than bleach or the crystals alone.

But for the main clean I just recently went with the bulk home made powdered stuff, 2x sodium percarbonate to 1x sodium metasilicate. Bought in big enough bulk the metasilicate isn't that much more than the soda crystal packs I was getting (because you need much smaller quantities). Other posts on the forum seemed to indicate that these 'could' keep for many months; I very much hope that turns out to be the case as I got enough to last me for well over a year! So far I'm quite pleased anyway, as a warm solution its shifting stains and dried on crud that soaking in bleach or soda crystals didn't touch, though I couldn't yet say its staggeringly better than the percarbonate/soda-crystal mix.

Cheers
kev

[EccentricDyslexic]

Caustic soda is good enuff to disolve dead bodies, youd think itd be good enuff for the thin coating of gunk wort coats our boilers, FVs and pipes? Do we homebrewers really need brewery stregnth chems? especialy cus we have the luxury of time(pleant of time between brews to leave stuff soaking). Comercial brewers need quick clean and rinse then on to the next brew id imagine. Like Andy sez, cheapy wiz oxy clean is fine, but i dont want to be warming water up so y not caustic soda(apart from the dangerousness of the stuff), once disolved just keep reusing it.

Hmm...decisions decisions!

Steve

[Kev888]

Its a valid point that time doesn't equal money for most of us homebrewers, and probably a bit of manual scrubbing is no biggie for us either - its largely that which ultimately stopped me persuing the complexities of CIP really.

But as my time for brewing seems ever decreasing (and some of my tanks have grown to be difficult to reach the bottom of) I'm finding it still worth investing in some decent cleaner. For me its not so much financial as it is to help keep emphasis on the more enjoyable parts of brewing in the time available, really. But that said, 'if' my bulk purchase keeps well enough it'll actually be costing me hardly more per pint too, so that kind of clinched the deal for me..

Interestingly though, I'd personally have seen caustic soda as the more industrial-strength product..

Cheers
Kev