Clean-in-place Spray Ball - ANY Fermenter/Keg

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PeeBee
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Re: Clean-in-place Spray Ball - ANY Fermenter/Keg

Post by PeeBee » Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:58 pm

Another pump I came across recently:https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07PB3L78W. It says 30L/min, has some suction power (self-priming?) and a potential head of 20M (about 28PSI?). But something like it was getting bad reviews for reliability so I'm not diving in yet (I've still got my diaphragm pump array to try). Not sure if head is entirely suitable (corrosion resistant) but brass with plastic "wipers" (from another description) seems hopeful?

Bit discouraged by that beefy SG550 pump not being up to job.

There seems to be an increasing number of pumps coming on the market, so I can wait and see what comes up.
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

Haydnexport
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Re: Clean-in-place Spray Ball - ANY Fermenter/Keg

Post by Haydnexport » Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:01 pm

IPA wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:41 am
Haydnexport wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:35 pm
I have an rg550 pump that has these specs http://www.stuart-turner.co.uk/media/11 ... G550-2.pdf . And that doesn't run my cip ball , neither does my march may 815. I have a makita submersible pump doing the business atm , but this is far from hygenic, but it does get dried crud off cornies and fermenters. Reading this earlier i saw central heating pumps mentioned , there was concern about the cast head on them , you can get bronzed headed ones , and i used one in a saltwater live bait setup for a few years with no issues , so if i decide to improve my cip cleaner i will be trying a bronze head pump next .
Try using a fixed head sprayball they work fine. Forget about central heating pumps. They are designed for high volume and low pressure.

I've bought the cheapest central heating pump I could find and it almost works perfect. Just not enough oomph at the end. I'll try a few different piping setups with it before buying a beefy one, I'm sure a better one would work.

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Re: Clean-in-place Spray Ball - ANY Fermenter/Keg

Post by IPA » Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:44 am

Haydnexport wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:01 pm
IPA wrote:
Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:41 am
Haydnexport wrote:
Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:35 pm
I have an rg550 pump that has these specs http://www.stuart-turner.co.uk/media/11 ... G550-2.pdf . And that doesn't run my cip ball , neither does my march may 815. I have a makita submersible pump doing the business atm , but this is far from hygenic, but it does get dried crud off cornies and fermenters. Reading this earlier i saw central heating pumps mentioned , there was concern about the cast head on them , you can get bronzed headed ones , and i used one in a saltwater live bait setup for a few years with no issues , so if i decide to improve my cip cleaner i will be trying a bronze head pump next .
Try using a fixed head sprayball they work fine. Forget about central heating pumps. They are designed for high volume and low pressure.

I've bought the cheapest central heating pump I could find and it almost works perfect. Just not enough oomph at the end. I'll try a few different piping setups with it before buying a beefy one, I'm sure a better one would work.
Exactly what I said. Not enough oomph.
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ingo
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Re: Clean-in-place Spray Ball - ANY Fermenter/Keg

Post by ingo » Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:34 am

As you need flow and pressure, look for flexible impeller pumps. I doubt they come cheap and small. Your hoses and fittings have to up to the job, they keep building pressure. On mine, a mid size Liverani, I've mounted a over pressure valve that opens the bypass/shunt.

Edit: Marco UP series pumps look nice, no idea of cost.

Ingo

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Re: Clean-in-place Spray Ball - ANY Fermenter/Keg

Post by PeeBee » Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:22 pm

ingo wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:34 am
As you need flow and pressure, look for flexible impeller pumps. I doubt they come cheap and small. Your hoses and fittings have to up to the job, they keep building pressure. On mine, a mid size Liverani, I've mounted a over pressure valve that opens the bypass/shunt.

Edit: Marco UP series pumps look nice, no idea of cost.

Ingo
Those flexible impeller pumps might be as I linked earlier? But I was looking at the "cheap" end and I'm not sure they are right, just presuming they indicate "things to come".

The impellers in the pump I linked had flexible blades, or wipers, and ran in eccentric houses so they would build good pressures and shift large volumes. They look like a better bet than the diaphragm pumps I got (and haven't fixed up yet). Diaphragm pumps build great pressure, but pump little volume. However they can be arranged in parallel to pump larger volumes - I've tried two 12V jobs, but felt a third, a fourth even, would do a better job (that's what I haven't fixed up yet). Trouble with diaphragm pumps is they seem to be coming increasingly popular … and expensive.

I'm using a diaphragm pump for "CIP" without a ball - just recirculating cleaning solutions in pipework (dispensing). Like "ingo" I'm fitting "over-pressure" valves to deal with accidental pipe blockages (like forgetting to open a tap!) 'cos I'm fed up of getting drenched - the pressures build quite high enough to disengage JG joints, hose-barbs, even burst silicone tubes* and one day it'll be something worse. Sounds expensive, but I'm using cheapo "blow-ties" better known as "spunding valves". Here 'tis (work in progress):
20190925_170709_WEB.jpg
(EDIT:
20190927_165225_WEB.jpg
)

The "blow-tie" is tee-d into the pump outflow so if the outflow is blocked the "blow-tie" opens to relieve pressure build up. Note, this pump model was too weak to drive a CIP ball, I have a few more powerful versions.

Note I said put the pumps in parallel. In series the pressure will increase which you don't need. *I do not recommend silicone tube in dispensing 'cos it is so permeable to oxygen, but its great (flexible) for the CIP stuff (EDIT: It also makes a good secondary pressure relief valve - it bursts under pressure quite readily).
Last edited by PeeBee on Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:17 am, edited 3 times in total.
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

ingo
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Re: Clean-in-place Spray Ball - ANY Fermenter/Keg

Post by ingo » Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:06 am

The blue one (80 pounds) seems a centrifugal one to me, the outlet is axial.

For cipping kegs I use a Einhell GC-DW 900 N inside a 50l keg. A stainless one Einhell GC-DP 1020 N.

Image

Ingo

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Re: Clean-in-place Spray Ball - ANY Fermenter/Keg

Post by PeeBee » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:34 pm

ingo wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:06 am
The blue one (80 pounds) seems a centrifugal one to me, the outlet is axial.

For cipping kegs I use a Einhell GC-DW 900 N inside a 50l keg. A stainless one Einhell GC-DP 1020 N. …
Looks good. Those Einhell pumps (and some similar jobs) are available on Amazon and certainly should have enough poke behind them (the "dirty water" one pumps at up to 18,000L/h and up to 9m; like my flood gates, I can pay for it with the insurance savings I'm forced to make by having no flood cover), but they are quite a price (about £80-90 for the 1020 "dirty" one). If my cheapo attempts fail I could probably justify one (I've a small river 10m away), but I'll keep up the cheapo route for a bit longer. I notice the piccie has a full-on CIP ball - too many slots for any cheapo solutions to drive.
Last edited by PeeBee on Sun Sep 29, 2019 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

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Re: Clean-in-place Spray Ball - ANY Fermenter/Keg

Post by PeeBee » Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:31 am

The "Blow-Tie" devices work perfectly as pressure release valves, so that should reduce the regular soakings I would get. I'll be sure to work one into the main CIP design. These devices are perfectly happy "wet", they were originally conceived for the likes of RO setups (I think?).
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
Water report demystified (the "Defuddler"; removes the nonsense!): https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

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Re: Clean-in-place Spray Ball - ANY Fermenter/Keg

Post by Jocky » Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:13 am

ingo wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:06 am
The blue one (80 pounds) seems a centrifugal one to me, the outlet is axial.

For cipping kegs I use a Einhell GC-DW 900 N inside a 50l keg. A stainless one Einhell GC-DP 1020 N.

Image

Ingo
Do you use hot water? I'm curious because I thought that they needed to be cooled by the fluid they are pumping.
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Re: Clean-in-place Spray Ball - ANY Fermenter/Keg

Post by ingo » Wed Oct 02, 2019 10:52 am

I use cold water + NaOH, while in use the temperature slowly rises to about 50°C, in about half an hour, due to the pump and the friction in the spray ball. So I give it some rest after two cornies.

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