Small Scale Barrell Ageing

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benchharp
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Small Scale Barrell Ageing

Post by benchharp » Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:20 am

Hi,

Doing a Stout at the moment and want to try using oak chips in the secondary.

Probably these: https://brew2bottle.co.uk/collections/s ... chips-100g

Couple of questions

1) Can i assume that the chips will be sanitised? They've been soaked in Bourbon so seems very likely. If not would i just boil them?

2) My last couple of brews have been heavily hopped ipas and as such i've raised the temperature towards the end of fermentation to prevent diacetyl flavours and then cold crashed for a couple of days before bottling. Is this similarly important on a stout? and would this be done before transfer to the secondary or before bottling?

3) I've noticed that my previous stouts have really come into their own after around 4 months. What is the best way to store these? as in, will they still develop if they are in the fridge or would age better at room temperature?

I'd be grateful for any thoughts.

Thanks

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Eric
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Re: Small Scale Barrell Ageing

Post by Eric » Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:16 pm

Best wishes for success in your project.

1) I've never used oak chips, but wouldn't assume they were still sterile. Instead would soak them in more alcohol to ensure all surfaces were sanitised.

2) Diacetyl is a natural byproduct of fermentation. I struggle to taste it in ale, even in beers that others have spotted and mentioned it. I can only remember it in one of my beers and only in its first few days. Yeast cleans up diacetyl if given time. One method preferred by some is to give the yeast more time at a higher temperature, but yeast will remove it at cellar temperature if not made to drop out by too low temperature chilling. Diacetyl will spoil some paler lagers, but can enhance other beers and is rare to find in casked beers allowed to naturally condition properly.

3) Maturation time should be dependent upon strength more than style. While an Imperial Stout might not be at its best inside 4 months, it's likely beyond my self control to keep a cask of 4 or 5% stout for 4 months. My last one was brewed in May 2019, casked 8 days later and notes record it was tasting good and being drank after 8 more days. I'll likely brew one in the next cool spell of weather and none will last to Christmas.

I don't have a beer fridge, but a beer store that is sheltered from direct sunlight. My beers can get warm in summer and cold in winter, far from ideal, but neither give me serious problems. Between 12 and 14C is the best range for conditioning both IPAs and Stouts. Each requires a different water profile and I usually mash stouts for 2 hours at 66/67C with no mash out nor any cold steep palaver.
Without patience, life becomes difficult and the sooner it's finished, the better.

benchharp
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Re: Small Scale Barrell Ageing

Post by benchharp » Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:53 pm

Eric wrote:
Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:16 pm
Best wishes for success in your project.

1) I've never used oak chips, but wouldn't assume they were still sterile. Instead would soak them in more alcohol to ensure all surfaces were sanitised.

2) Diacetyl is a natural byproduct of fermentation. I struggle to taste it in ale, even in beers that others have spotted and mentioned it. I can only remember it in one of my beers and only in its first few days. Yeast cleans up diacetyl if given time. One method preferred by some is to give the yeast more time at a higher temperature, but yeast will remove it at cellar temperature if not made to drop out by too low temperature chilling. Diacetyl will spoil some paler lagers, but can enhance other beers and is rare to find in casked beers allowed to naturally condition properly.

3) Maturation time should be dependent upon strength more than style. While an Imperial Stout might not be at its best inside 4 months, it's likely beyond my self control to keep a cask of 4 or 5% stout for 4 months. My last one was brewed in May 2019, casked 8 days later and notes record it was tasting good and being drank after 8 more days. I'll likely brew one in the next cool spell of weather and none will last to Christmas.

I don't have a beer fridge, but a beer store that is sheltered from direct sunlight. My beers can get warm in summer and cold in winter, far from ideal, but neither give me serious problems. Between 12 and 14C is the best range for conditioning both IPAs and Stouts. Each requires a different water profile and I usually mash stouts for 2 hours at 66/67C with no mash out nor any cold steep palaver.
Thanks Eric,

In regards to adjuncts and oak chips - i've read alot about using adjuncts in the secondary - Would you normally do this at the same temperature as primary - in my case 20c or would you drop it to 'room temp' or lower? Any thoughts?

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Eric
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Re: Small Scale Barrell Ageing

Post by Eric » Fri Sep 04, 2020 5:59 pm

Sorry, but I'm not the one to advise on how to process flavouring or other additives during fermentation, that's something I don't, as a rule, do.

From reading it is very popular at present, but with some exceptions I do wonder why? What is wrong with good beer that causes it to be in need of an enhancement of some kind or another? Also I don't quite see fermentation as a separated two stage process when I brew.

My brews are mostly used heavily top fermenting yeasts of the kind that are not necessarily off the shelf in the local homebrew shop. Initially they need oxygen to grow significantly in population, done by regular rousing during the first 48 hours. This cannot be done under airlock and if done under cover can potentially lead to the yeast escaping from even large vessels. Fermentation slows as the readily fermentable sugars are mostly converted to alcohol, heat generation reduces, the yeast begin flocculating and the krausen starts sinking. In the next day or two the yeast will be skimmed to leave a covering for protection, when the green beer is gently cooled. Most yeast are now either removed for use in the next brew or are in process of dropping out. The rest will clean up and begin consuming some of the longer chain sugars provided they are not chilled too much. After a couple of more days more of the yeast will have dropped out and the beer is transferred to a cask or plastic budget barrel with a small amount of priming sugar to give those yeast something to eat and consume any oxygen that ingressed during the transfer. Ideally stored at 12C fermentation will continue for at least a couple of months and more, keeping the beer carbonated.

Now sometimes I will add a small handful of hop cones to the cask, but usually the beer will be drinking well in short time with enough flavours for my own need. Such beers will drink well until the yeast exhausts the usable sugars and carbonation is quickly lost and the beer becomes lifeless, but only rarely will a beer last that long. I accept it will not achieve tastes such as that of gooseberry or pickled gherkins, but the range of malts, grains and adjucts available to mash with sugars and other syrups that can be added to the boil, I find no need to disturb my yeast at their main task. I've also found many who do soon find themselves in the LODO lobby because reasoning tells them oxygen spoils beer. It does, but only in circumstances that can be avoided.
Without patience, life becomes difficult and the sooner it's finished, the better.

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