Lager and pressure fermentation questions/experiment

Discuss all aspects of fermentation
User avatar
leedsbrew
Steady Drinker
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:51 pm

Lager and pressure fermentation questions/experiment

Post by leedsbrew » Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:02 am

Now then chaps!

I have recently been collecting parts to try my hand at a bit of pressure fermentation. I plan to start with using a corny keg, with a spunding valve, and a floating dip tube lid. Not massively mould breaking, but all new to me.

I also plan to use this as an opportunity to try out some of the dry yeast strains that are also new to me (it’s fantastic to see how far the honey has gone during my modest hiatus).

I plan to do a 30L batches and split 15l into corny to ferment under pressure with lager yeast (starting with cml hell) and the other 15 fermented in the ferm fridge with an ale yeast. I’m also hoping that by keeping the normal out post dip tube, I’ll be able to crop from the bottom, but then transfer bright beer to another keg using the float lid.

So my questions are:

15L in a corny with bottom cropping yeast, enough head space?

What pressures should I be looking for with the spunding valve? I’ve read anything from 2-12psi

With pressure fermentation, is a prolonged cool lagering needed?


Many thanks in advance


N


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

User avatar
Cobnut
Drunk as a Skunk
Posts: 758
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:23 pm
Location: Ipswich
Contact:

Re: Lager and pressure fermentation questions/experiment

Post by Cobnut » Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:55 am

I've brewed a few lagers under pressure.

I have a powerpoint or pdf pack I shared with my Homebrew Club, but JBK Forum won't allow me to post it.

I'll try to send it via PM.
Fermenting: nowt
Conditioning: English IPA/Bretted English IPA
Drinking: Sunshine Marmalade, Festbier, Helles Bock, Smokey lagery beer, Irish Export StoutCascade APA (homegrown hops), Orval clone, Impy stout, Duvel clone, Conestoga (American Barley wine)
Planning: Dark Mild, Kozel dark (ish), Simmonds Bitter, Bitter, Citra PA and more!

User avatar
leedsbrew
Steady Drinker
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:51 pm

Re: Lager and pressure fermentation questions/experiment

Post by leedsbrew » Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:56 am

Ah great thanks pal. Failing that I’ll pm you my email if that’s ok?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

User avatar
Cobnut
Drunk as a Skunk
Posts: 758
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:23 pm
Location: Ipswich
Contact:

Re: Lager and pressure fermentation questions/experiment

Post by Cobnut » Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:47 am

you should have an email from me.
Fermenting: nowt
Conditioning: English IPA/Bretted English IPA
Drinking: Sunshine Marmalade, Festbier, Helles Bock, Smokey lagery beer, Irish Export StoutCascade APA (homegrown hops), Orval clone, Impy stout, Duvel clone, Conestoga (American Barley wine)
Planning: Dark Mild, Kozel dark (ish), Simmonds Bitter, Bitter, Citra PA and more!

User avatar
leedsbrew
Steady Drinker
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:51 pm

Re: Lager and pressure fermentation questions/experiment

Post by leedsbrew » Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:49 am

Cobnut wrote:you should have an email from me.
Cheers, replied now ImageImage


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

private4587
Tippler
Posts: 20
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:34 pm

Re: Lager and pressure fermentation questions/experiment

Post by private4587 » Mon Dec 14, 2020 10:19 am

Hi Cobnut if you still the pdf file could you please send it to me also

f00b4r
Site Admin
Posts: 1528
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:54 pm
Location: Berlin

Re: Lager and pressure fermentation questions/experiment

Post by f00b4r » Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:37 pm

If you pm me it Cobnut I will try and sort out posting it here.

User avatar
Cobnut
Drunk as a Skunk
Posts: 758
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:23 pm
Location: Ipswich
Contact:

Re: Lager and pressure fermentation questions/experiment

Post by Cobnut » Mon Dec 14, 2020 2:29 pm

@f00b4r, check your emails
Fermenting: nowt
Conditioning: English IPA/Bretted English IPA
Drinking: Sunshine Marmalade, Festbier, Helles Bock, Smokey lagery beer, Irish Export StoutCascade APA (homegrown hops), Orval clone, Impy stout, Duvel clone, Conestoga (American Barley wine)
Planning: Dark Mild, Kozel dark (ish), Simmonds Bitter, Bitter, Citra PA and more!

f00b4r
Site Admin
Posts: 1528
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 10:54 pm
Location: Berlin

Re: Lager and pressure fermentation questions/experiment

Post by f00b4r » Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:12 pm

Apologies for the delay on this but here is the presentation, I changed it to image files as I didn't want to open up PDF/PPT uploads. Let me know if you have any issues viewing it.


The pressure of brewing lagers 1.jpg
The pressure of brewing lagers 2.jpg
The pressure of brewing lagers 3.jpg
The pressure of brewing lagers 4.jpg
The pressure of brewing lagers 5.jpg
The pressure of brewing lagers 6.jpg
The pressure of brewing lagers 7.jpg

McMullan

Re: Lager and pressure fermentation questions/experiment

Post by McMullan » Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:55 pm

The biggest problem I’ve had with pressure fermentations was using one of those crap ‘spunding valves’ pictured in the presentation. A complete waste of 30 quid. The HBSs selling these dysfunctional devices should be thoroughly embarrassed, frankly. I found Keg Land’s cheap (less than a tender with delivery) blowtie valves much more reliable. It makes a huge difference.

User avatar
Cobnut
Drunk as a Skunk
Posts: 758
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:23 pm
Location: Ipswich
Contact:

Re: Lager and pressure fermentation questions/experiment

Post by Cobnut » Mon Dec 21, 2020 11:10 am

@McMullan, I agree that none of the various spunding valves I've used so far are very good (I've tried 2-3 different ones).
The other issue I've had is if the pressure rises too high, relieving it without flooding the valve with krausen is hard; let a bit of pressure out and the krausen rises, let too little out (i.e. reduce the setting too little) and the pressure will keep rising due to the active fermentation.
TBH I've only brewed a small selection of lager type beers in total and still working out how to get the process right.
In truth, probably the traditional method works best, but obviously takes a while longer!
And I don't think you can beat a few weeks or more of lagering at a good low temperature (although that can take place in the bottle).
Fermenting: nowt
Conditioning: English IPA/Bretted English IPA
Drinking: Sunshine Marmalade, Festbier, Helles Bock, Smokey lagery beer, Irish Export StoutCascade APA (homegrown hops), Orval clone, Impy stout, Duvel clone, Conestoga (American Barley wine)
Planning: Dark Mild, Kozel dark (ish), Simmonds Bitter, Bitter, Citra PA and more!

pinkeye
Tippler
Posts: 15
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2020 8:47 pm

Re: Lager and pressure fermentation questions/experiment

Post by pinkeye » Thu Dec 24, 2020 6:22 pm

Although probably not 100% the correct threed, can an FV(normal 5gal unpresureized) with an airlock on top still blow it's lid off ?

Carnot
Piss Artist
Posts: 162
Joined: Wed Sep 13, 2017 8:32 pm

Re: Lager and pressure fermentation questions/experiment

Post by Carnot » Thu Dec 24, 2020 11:42 pm

In theory, and in my opinion , no. But it very much depends on the size and type of airlock connection. An ale, with a vigourous fermentation could produce so much krausen that it might overwelm the airlock/ blow off cane. What is crtical is the sizing of the airlock and it connection. The biggest risk would be those ss vessel with a large removable lid ( like my SS Brewtech) which are only rated to about 1-2 psi. Excessive foam could create enough overpressure to cause the seal gasket to leak, but most likely would expel the airlock.Using a blow off cane could increase the potential internal pressure due to the restricted bore size and length.

User avatar
leedsbrew
Steady Drinker
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:51 pm

Re: Lager and pressure fermentation questions/experiment

Post by leedsbrew » Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:57 pm

I currently have 10L of smoked beer under 20psi at room temp fermenting with CML hell pipsner yeast. The other 15L of the batch is fermenting @ 18oC with Lallamand kolsch. Will be interesting to see the difference


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

herms bay
Steady Drinker
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:08 am

Re: Lager and pressure fermentation questions/experiment

Post by herms bay » Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:39 am

I use a simple recipe of pilsner with touch of vienna and munich with Tettnanger, one pack of 34/70 yeast. can get 28l (26.5 net) out of fermzilla at 15psi @21C in 10 days. krausen is only light and its good to drink @day 12, better at day 15 when crashed properly and is fizzy from the word go with a nice head.

Post Reply