Liquor for Samual Smith Taddy Porter - Graham Wheeler's?

(That's water to the rest of us!) Beer is about 95% water, so if you want to discuss water treatment, filtering etc this is the place to do it!
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OhDannyBoy!
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Liquor for Samual Smith Taddy Porter - Graham Wheeler's?

Post by OhDannyBoy! » Sun Mar 24, 2024 6:55 pm

Just wondering if anyone has used Graham's Target numbers for a porter profile?

How did it turn out?

According to John Palmer and Beersmith it has a Sulphate/Chloride Ratio of 0.3 and a Sulphate/Chloride Balance rated as Too Malty or Extremely Malty?

I like malty beers, but I'm a little concerned by Too or Extremely!

What are folks experiences or thoughts of a Porter made with this target water profile?

Cheers! Dan.

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MashBag
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Re: Liquor for Samual Smith Taddy Porter - Graham Wheeler's?

Post by MashBag » Mon Mar 25, 2024 8:14 am

Forgive me, but John Palmer is American. "too malty" would be very easy to get to fit a UK beers.

Not knocking John at all, but his palette will be different.

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MashBag
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Re: Liquor for Samual Smith Taddy Porter - Graham Wheeler's?

Post by MashBag » Mon Mar 25, 2024 8:15 am

How are you treating your water at present?

OhDannyBoy!
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Re: Liquor for Samual Smith Taddy Porter - Graham Wheeler's?

Post by OhDannyBoy! » Mon Mar 25, 2024 1:05 pm

Hi MashBag, yeah, I'm aware that both are American.

Just wondering what folks experiences are of brewing a porter with a Sulphate:Chloride ratio 0.3?

Have mostly been using Bru'n up to now for profiles, but I'm very interested trying the Wheeler or Murphy's numbers.

Cheers.

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Eric
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Re: Liquor for Samual Smith Taddy Porter - Graham Wheeler's?

Post by Eric » Fri Mar 29, 2024 4:35 pm

Sam Smith's brewery has been going since 1758. Their water comes from a large aquifer, high in calcium, magnesium, sulphate, chloride and alkalinity. They learned how to treat it for beers long before John Palmer was on this earth and Martin Brungard would probably advise installing an RO plant to make his preferred style of beers.

There are two other large breweries in Tadcaster, which was second in beer production only to Burton during its heydays. John Smith's is feet away across a lane from Sam's, brothers that split. The Tower Brewery now owned by Coors, is about 250 yards distant as the crow flies. Those are their for brewing skills and a good local water supply for those able to suitably treat it.

Dark beers can only rarely benefit from water with more sulphates than cholrides. Sulphate dries and accentuates bitterness and harsher flavours, while chloride can soften some of those and add body to a beer that could otherwise be thin and acrid, although the hops will be more dominant than the malts that dark beers are often reknown for.

The ration between sulphate and chloride can be important, but the quantity is just as important. My current porter has 140ppm sulphate and 260ppm chloride, while my last dark beer before the porter had 137ppm sulphate and 325ppm chloride.I doubt if 14ppm sulphate and 47ppm chloride would hit the right spot.
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Re: Liquor for Samual Smith Taddy Porter - Graham Wheeler's?

Post by OhDannyBoy! » Tue Apr 02, 2024 2:20 pm

Great stuff {info} Eric!

What ppm of Sodium do you personally go for in a Porter? Thinking of trying the GW's 100ppm?

Cheers, Dan.

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Eric
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Re: Liquor for Samual Smith Taddy Porter - Graham Wheeler's?

Post by Eric » Tue Apr 02, 2024 3:10 pm

OhDannyBoy! wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2024 2:20 pm
Great stuff {info} Eric!

What ppm of Sodium do you personally go for in a Porter? Thinking of trying the GW's 100ppm?

Cheers, Dan.
I've not explored sodium to any degree. It has been used extensively through the history of water treatment for dark beers because common salt is cheap, its virtues I have not explored.

My water typically comes with 35ppm sodium, so I'm happy to settle for that. On the few occasions I've added more, there has been no immediately noticeable improvement. However, increasing salt to 100ppm for me would cause me to reduce calcium, and I'm no fan of that.

I've found using acids to neutralise alkalinity and thereby provide anions, to be better than adding individual brewing salts. For example, adding gypsum to my water produces a white deposit that could be gypsum, or might be calcium carbonate forced out of solution as calcium bicarbonate, or a mix of the two. When adding sulphuric acid creates deposit, just CO2 bubbling off and the increase in sulphate is easily calculated.

Try 100ppm sodium, just don't overlook the benefits of having calcium in your brewing liquor.
Without patience, life becomes difficult and the sooner it's finished, the better.

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