Alkalinity, Testing Your Tap Water

[trisers]

Have i been fobbed off is the question i'd like to know before i return a shirty email to Thames Water....
I emailed them to find out the ALKALINITY of my water supply and of course they supplied the HARDNESS value (something I easily obtained from their webiste HERE) so i asked again having pointed out their error and this is the reply i received....

Thank you for your email

I am sorry the information I have provided is not what you are looking for,
however after contacting our
Water Quality Department, I have been advised that Alkalinity is not a
regulatory parameter, so the
information we obtain is for operational purposes.

Our Water Quality Advisor has examined data from the supply area you
provided and advises it shows
an Alkalinity of 250mg/1(CaCo3) and 300mg/1(HCO3).

I am sorry I cannot be of more assistance.

Yours sincerely

Now, call me a cynic but it strikes me as those figures were an educated guess for my water based on the hardness value (250 and 300) which raises a couple of questions...firstly are they fairly accurate and secondly are the accurate enough?

....ohhh and thirdly lol, are they required by regulation to provide an accurate figure for my water supply?

[ADDLED]

Have i been fobbed off is the question i'd like to know before i return a shirty email to Thames Water....
I emailed them to find out the ALKALINITY of my water supply and of course they supplied the HARDNESS value (something I easily obtained from their webiste HERE) so i asked again having pointed out their error and this is the reply i received....

Thank you for your email

I am sorry the information I have provided is not what you are looking for,
however after contacting our
Water Quality Department, I have been advised that Alkalinity is not a
regulatory parameter, so the
information we obtain is for operational purposes.

Our Water Quality Advisor has examined data from the supply area you
provided and advises it shows
an Alkalinity of 250mg/1(CaCo3) and 300mg/1(HCO3).

I am sorry I cannot be of more assistance.

Yours sincerely

Now, call me a cynic but it strikes me as those figures were an educated guess for my water based on the hardness value (250 and 300) which raises a couple of questions...firstly are they fairly accurate and secondly are the accurate enough?

....ohhh and thirdly lol, are they required by regulation to provide an accurate figure for my water supply?

Trisers im in Thames water area and had the sme non-info. Best advice is to follow Chris's info above and gbet a water test kit; simple test that takes 2 mins and the kit has enough for a couple of hundred tests.
At least then YOU will know and be able to rely on the info.
best of luck
ADDLED

[daveylaa]

Trisers I had the same thing, from severn trent: as said before get a kit see chris's link above, they are easy to undertake and after a couple of go's you feel confident with the readout, because you understand how (think you understand anyway) the test is performed.

one of the best £8 I have spent ( except my first 4.5 kg of grain that is )

[fullmash]

Hi i am intrested in this kit if there is enough intrest i am getting into this subject a lot and find treating your water for brewing makes a big diffrence to the brew Please let me know if this comes off
Thanks
Fullmash

[daveylaa]

Hi Fullmash

I will let you know how my first (non boiling) water treatment goes, using the info from Chris and Adm.

But it wont be till September, as I brewed my last two kits in June and BOTH, went off after a few weeks. This due I am sure to the fact that one shouldnt (homebrew) in the summer as Recomended in G Wheeler book. Due to increased chance of airborne infection with pollens etc flying about in greater numbers.

Cheers

Dave

[ADDLED]

Hi Fullmash

I will let you know how my first (non boiling) water treatment goes, using the info from Chris and Adm.

But it wont be till September, as I brewed my last two kits in June and BOTH, went off after a few weeks. This due I am sure to the fact that one shouldnt (homebrew) in the summer as Recomended in G Wheeler book. Due to increased chance of airborne infection with pollens etc flying about in greater numbers.

Cheers

Dave

Dave ive brewed in excess of 5 AG batches since June and not had one problem, so Im thinking it might be a particular problem with kit beers since they dont need a boil. How are you storing the beer, whats your hygiene routine, what sanitiser do you use, do you bottle or keg, do you rack off primary before bottle/kegging? etc.

[daveylaa]

Hi Chrisx1 Hi Addled

Make that one infection, from one of the last Youngs Tins I had left, the Harvest Larger, brewed as a modifed Kit, Hops etc. was off from the first taste, (a month in budget barrel)

The second kit I had left, tasted off - (( youngs CIDER)) but in conlcusion, it went very very dry ( 2 months now in 2nd barrel)-and tasted quite differnet to the other ciders I did - but run through my flash cooler, last night it is fine just DRY - I know the temp hides off tastes BUT it isnt infected) drinking it as I am typing!

I am pretty good with the steralization - I use over concentated YOUNGS poweder bleach - cleaner and leave for 20 -30 mins. and everything gets a going over, but you never know!

I had presumed that the YOUNGS larger kit, was infected due to summer airbourne pollens etc as hinted at in Grahams book. Deep countryside, orchards and flower beds etc 50 feet from my little brew shed.

Re Addled's question; Method: boiler to FV, then Budget barrel (2nd fermentation in house), then I rack again to 2nd budget barrel, for the months conditioning. A few rackings, I know, but I have a only a tablesoon of yeast slurry when the 2nd barrel is empty.

In summary, 'normal' contamination excepted, is the non brewing in summer thing, NOT SO IMPORTANT. As I have my 2nd AG ingrediants AND (Chris x 1's) water treatment method all ready to go! Maybee I should go for it!

Cheers

Dave

[daveylaa]

Done my first CRS water treatment (NON BOIL TREATMENT) with Chrisxq and Addled's advice with the SURFEIT testing kit.

all good 4.9 mls (5) per litre CRS with desert spoon of gypsum in the mash tun and boiler.

PH was 5.2 - 5.3 (PH STRIPS NOT METER) in the MASH liquer afte 5 mins.

CHEERS

[leewink]

Remember though, you will get swings in your water of what you have tested for, every water boards reports swing anything from 10-20% during the year they cover generally (difference between min / max and mean), so i trust you will test every batch you do ? whats right now in your calculation could be as much as 10% up or down on the next batch, one report now and no testing from here on in will lead to batch differences, deffinitely.

Just saying if you base your mix on a calculation of one test or report, your calculation will differ on outcome vastly over time, with no continual testing or calculation change.

[Dark-Brahma]

Help, without reading through 21 pages of this thread can someone tell where I can get this kit please

[Wezzel]

I picked up a Salifert kit from a tropical fish shop a week or so ago. About a tenner. I'm looking forward to trying last weeks brew to see if the water treatment has made a difference.

[gherkin]

I don't want to have to read through the 21 pages of thread - but I presume someone during the discussion has explained that there is no direct relationship between pH and alkalinity....so any method of calculating alkalinity using pH will be approximate at best and could be way off at worst....just sayin

[dynamic dave]

The two are different both having a bearing on mash efficiency and overall beer quality depending on style of beer,seems to me getting the liquor composition correct by adding A.M.S OR C.R.S for alkalinity and adding various salts according to water calculator the PH will not be that far out from 5.5ph.