Re: Water Treatment Videos

[tim]

Hmmmm wonder if i might be doing something wrong here.
Have done the test, but got no reaction after adding a syringe full (ie. 1 ml) of KH reagent as per instructions. Refilled with reagent and got a reaction as per video link after adding further drops to a reading of 0.86.
Calculating below 0.00 in same steps that takes me to a reading of -0.14 and adding to alkalinity in meq/L in same steps (adding 0.11 at a time) gives me 6.48 meq/L. Multiply by 50 gives me 324 mg/l CaCO3 - does that sound possible?? (I'm just outside of Reading - the water is pretty hard - last Thames Water report gave total hardness as CaCO3 at 306).
And now everything is covered in snow!!!
GRateful for any advice!

[tim]

THanks chris - suspect your answer to my earleir reply came before my question above .... so would I be able to use the tester bottle to recalibrate to actual test so I can accommodate my earlier result do you think?

[WallyBrew]

Hmmmm wonder if i might be doing something wrong here.

Whilst your calculation looks correct, 324 looks high.

Is it possible you used 5ml of water instead of 4ml?

If you had then the result would be about 259 which may be possible for the area

If you didn't do that then your alkalinity is quite high

[tim]

Thanks for helpful replies

Have run the test again X2 to double check endpoint against the pictures posted and result is more or less the same (though spotting end point sooner gives me a reading of 6.26 X 50= 313 mg/L CaCO3 .... guess the only thing to resolve it is to do the water treatment accordingly and brew!

[beer today]

hi, I have a similar reading to that of andysmok, I too live in the NWest, (S.Manchester), I have used the Salifert test and literally immediatley got the colour change, ran it a second time to confirm a reading of 0.94= 0.34meq/L or x50 =17 mg/L.
We know the water is soft here. My previous couple of AG mashes ran with a hi pH of 5.9 ish, again I am pre boiling my water the day before and adding 10g Gypsum and Epsom salts when cool.
I will experiment and add 20g Gypsum and see how the mash pH is affected, unless you think thats too much.
FWIW tap water , my Salifert Calcium kit read 20ppm and the pH strip 6.
cheers
fras

[beer today]

yes, thats right I add the Gypsum to the boiling water. I'll see what happens tomorrow. It brings it home when you start hearing of the massive variations in regional water components, I'm sure this topic just runs and runs....
thanks
fras

[beer today]

well I brewed today, and preboiled my water as stated- adding Gypsum when boiling and Epsom salts when cool. This time I added 20g of Gypsum, which brought the mash pH down to 5.4, so all seems good, do I need to worry about adding Gypsum affecting the balance of other chemicals, or could I just keep adding till I get to 5.2 ?
cheers
Fras

[leewink]

Just read through this, forgive me if im wrong here, cant you just use a ph 5.2 balancer ? treats any water levels down to 5.2.

Then dip it with a dip strip test if really needed.

[leewink]

Most of this is due to temperature though, can you link me where this 5.2 has failed in test please, im very interested to see how in technical terms.

[Aleman]

The other issue with a phosphate buffer system is that it robs the mash of essential calcium . . . That's fine if you live in a Hard water area, but if you live in a soft /medium hardness area then you may well remove enough calcium to cause issues further on down the brewing process.

[mysterio]

Yeah I used 5.2 in a soft water area and i'm convinced it was causing problems. Taking half an hour to read the threads on here about water treatment is a much better investment.

[leewink]

Oki, I get you, chris, this water guy you suggest of, can you remember if he had direct problems AFTER the mash process, if he's tried it and got 5.6 what was his starting water ph / temperature an what did he test the ph with directly ?

And realistically, im after a general "its a bit better than nothing" addition here, Ive spent most of the morning searching out american reviews etc, found about 80% plus to rave over it with only a few on the downside, the downsiders didnt give any real explanation as to why (typical), as most of these i found were on a review page of a shop, and not specific testing sites.

I could add CRS, gyp etc, but TBH, i cant be bothered to keep testing every batch, even with a report from my local water comp, doesnt help me because of the swings in there yearly reports, and i'll never know when the swings going to happen.

I think i'll try this balancer, and a campden tab, I'm only going to make a 15-20 gallon batch, so if it messes up, no biggy

Cheers, lee

[leewink]

Chris, thankyou very much for that reply, I do apologise if i seem a little direct in approach, thats just me, no offense to anyone

I think I will take the "better than nothing" approach here as regard to chemical additions and a buffer, of course, any further info from you chris is mucho appreciated

Oki, I have found my local water board now its been taken over !! as veolia.

The report has given me a supply of "hard water" as they state, here's the rest -

HARD WATER
The area supplied by Three Valleys Water has 'hard' water. The hardness occurs naturally and is characterised by the presence of high levels of calcium and magnesium, which are good for healthy teeth and bones.

CALCIUM 140 mg/l
Calcium is the principal constituent of hardness.

TOTAL HARDNESS 350 mg/l
Total hardness is usually expressed in terms of calcium carbonate and is measured in milligrammes per litre (mg/l) or parts per million (ppm). The recognised classification scheme we are using is: 0-75 soft, 76-150 moderately hard, 151-300 hard, 300+ very hard. Your water is very hard.

Degrees English (or Clarke) 25
This hardness measurement is used on some British appliances.

Degrees German 20
This is used on some German appliances.

Degrees French 35
This is used on some French appliances.

MILLIMOLS 3.5 mmol/l
Millimols per litre. Some appliances refer to water hardness in millimols per litre (mmol/l).

FLUORIDE 0.24 mg/l
Fluoride naturally occurs in the water in many areas. Three Valleys Water does not add any fluoride to your water. Fluoride is measured in milligrammes per litre (mg/l).

[leewink]

I know thats just a general "postcode input" search on the waters site, but gives me an idea none the less.

Yep, calcium's strong here

Like you've seen on another thread chris I cant see the point of obtaining a deffinite read for alk, as this will be only based on the TIME that the guys looked at the readout, you can see by the other thread based on loads of peeps putting there reports on it, that theres so much swing (upto 20%) on all variables of these yearly reports, you'd have to test every batch, because you'd never know when the swings going to be, even then, other chemicals / metals in water have that same swing to on each report, which must also add to the end result of beer, but seemingly not as important to test ? for instance metals.

I cant in all honesty, be bothered to test every 5 gall batch water, as long as I have good calcium like you suggest and seemingly I have, i'll try the first batch with stabiliser, at least then it will be level ph on each batch, maybe more expensive, but the lazy a$$ way generally is ... and yes I am

cheers chap, lee

[Aleman]

It is precisely because of the swings that the one reading all brewers should do as a matter of course every brew is alkalinity . . . Although over the brews for the past few years I have got 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 24, 25, 25, 26, 24, 22, 24, 24 . . . See a pattern emerging . . .. . . I'm lucky in many ways in that Haweswater reservoir is so big that the water delivered is so consistent . . . I would be more appreciative of my luck if the water just had a bit more in it though

The Salifert test is 5 minutes which is a lot less than it takes to fill my HLT . . . So even though my water is consistent I sill do the test.

As you say though the water company reports are worth less than the paper they are printed on