Help Reading Water Reports

(That's water to the rest of us!) Beer is about 95% water, so if you want to discuss water treatment, filtering etc this is the place to do it!
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orlando
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Re: Help Reading Water Reports

Post by orlando » Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:55 am

barry44 wrote:
I had a play around with boosting my calcium a little and I see that it has dropped my ph, on tab 4, to 5.5 based on treating the mash water.

I assume that I add the salts to the grain for this?

It also mentions sparge water additions, I assume it is as simple as adding the salts to the sparge water as it heats?
Martin recommends adding all additions to the liquour to ensure that they are evenly distributed. I dissolve mine first and then add.
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barry44

Re: Help Reading Water Reports

Post by barry44 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:25 am

Double post, sorry
Last edited by barry44 on Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

barry44

Re: Help Reading Water Reports

Post by barry44 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:48 am

barry44 wrote:Hi all.

I requested a water report from Scottish Water and have received the following information:

Expressed as Calcium Mg/l 5.5
Expressed as Calcium Carbonate Mg/l 13.7
Expressed as Calcium Millimoles 0.1
Expressed as French 1.4
Expressed as English 1.0
Expressed as German 0.8

They also attached a water report which gave me a Hydrogen Ion (pH) of 8 and also gave me values for the following which i have input into bru n water:


Hi, I extracted the 13.7 from the above as the calcium carbonate value. Is that not correct?

Which value should I use or does it linked to other cells?

AnthonyUK

Re: Help Reading Water Reports

Post by AnthonyUK » Tue Dec 17, 2013 9:13 am

Sorry Barry. I misread your question.
You are right that the alkalinity value is copied over from sheet 1 and the cells you can input which are blue are for pH which is why I was confused ;)

barry44

Re: Help Reading Water Reports

Post by barry44 » Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:59 pm

So it is 13.7? I can adjust my cell on tab 2.

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Eric
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Re: Help Reading Water Reports

Post by Eric » Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:05 pm

barry44 wrote:So it is 13.7? I can adjust my cell on tab 2.
Probably not.

All those figures of calcium are but the same concentration expressed in 6 different standard measurements. I think, but can't be certain, that those amounts not for alkalinity but a general or total hardness measurement. That might be the combined measure of all compounds of calcium and magnesium in solution expressed in that list firstly in mg/l of an equivalent solution of solely calcium compounds, then in mg/l of an equivalent solution of all calcium carbonate, then again as just calcium but in millimoles and then in hardness scales originated in France, Britain and Germany. So probably all that calcium isn't and only part is alkalinity.

Of the other figures, iron, nitrates, nitrites and fluride are not of interest to brewers unless excessive and here they are small so can be ignored.
Sodium will mostly pair with chloride as common salt. 4mg of sodium would take up just over 6mg of chloride which is close to the figure supplied so you might now assume each litre of your tap water contains about 10mg of common salt.
That leaves just sulphate in that table, which can pair with calcium, a salt brewers add in the form of gypsum. The molecular weight of sulphate is 96 while calcium's atomic weight is 40 which means 8.24mg of sulphate could tie up 8.24 x 40/96 = 3.43mg of calcium equivalent, leaving just over 2mg/l free to create alkalinity.
Now 2mg of calcium would make 5mg of calcium carbonate ((2/40) x 100), so it would seem your water's alkalinity would more likely be of the order of 5mg/l CaCO3.

Now, as the very first reply implied, there is so little in your water that they could be assumed to be zero and I suggest you might just do that.
Without patience, life becomes difficult and the sooner it's finished, the better.

barry44

Re: Help Reading Water Reports

Post by barry44 » Wed Dec 18, 2013 9:37 am

Thanks for your response.

When you complete the water profile and go to tab 4 to adjust the water, it records the alkalinity of the water as 11.

Are you saying to discount this value and either use 5 or 0 in tab 2?

Apologies for being dim!!

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Re: Help Reading Water Reports

Post by Dave S » Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:02 am

barry44 wrote:Thanks for your response.

When you complete the water profile and go to tab 4 to adjust the water, it records the alkalinity of the water as 11.

Are you saying to discount this value and either use 5 or 0 in tab 2?

Apologies for being dim!!
Why not do a Salifert test and go by the result of that.
Best wishes

Dave

AnthonyUK

Re: Help Reading Water Reports

Post by AnthonyUK » Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:20 am

I would just put as much info as you have from your water report on tab1. Read the comments in each cell to determine if there is a default you can use if you do not have the value e.g. 8 for pH.
I second using a Salifert kit for accuracy as this is the most important figure.

barry44

Re: Help Reading Water Reports

Post by barry44 » Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:21 am

Will need to get one prior to sunday!!!

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Re: Help Reading Water Reports

Post by Dave S » Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:57 am

barry44 wrote:Will need to get one prior to sunday!!!
You might be pushing now for mail order, but you should be able to get one at an aquarium shop if you have one close by.
Best wishes

Dave

barry44

Re: Help Reading Water Reports

Post by barry44 » Wed Dec 18, 2013 12:15 pm

Are they easy to use?

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Re: Help Reading Water Reports

Post by Dave S » Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:17 pm

barry44 wrote:Are they easy to use?
Yes, quite easy. You just need a steady hand while adding the reagent drop-wise. And you need to be in good light so you can spot immediately when the colour changes from blue to pink. Other than that you just read your remaining reagent level from the syringe and match the meq/l value on the chart provided. That figure then has to be multiplied by 50 to give mg/l.
Best wishes

Dave

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Eric
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Re: Help Reading Water Reports

Post by Eric » Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:40 pm

barry44 wrote:Thanks for your response.

When you complete the water profile and go to tab 4 to adjust the water, it records the alkalinity of the water as 11.

Are you saying to discount this value and either use 5 or 0 in tab 2?
Sorry Barry, little point asking me about using any spreadsheet, let alone one I don't have that seems a work in progress. I've tried my best to interpret your water data, which suggests its mineral content is low enough (in total 1g per 40 litres of water) to possibly be outside the accuracy of most scales used by home brewers to measure salt additions. This matters little if your object is to make beer on a small scale, their influence not significant and so ignored without danger, but unfortunately, as you have found, are more of a problem when using software.
Your water probably comes by aquaduct from Loch Katrine. You'll maybe know the impervious nature of the rocks there as from Glasgow you've likely climbed Ben Arthur, The Cobbler, which is of the same stuff. This means your water will be very little different to when it fell from its cloud and untreated is suitable for making the palest and driest of beer styles. Adding 2 or 3 teaspoons of gypsum evenly split between the mash and boil will let you also make a hoppy pale ale or instead with calcium chloride a sweeter version of pale ale. While alkalinity is a bit low for those pale ales leading to a mash pH around 5.1, this should be no cause for concern at this stage. Alkalinity should be raised to fully explore the world of darker beers (and other styles of pale ones too), but that's another stage.
Without patience, life becomes difficult and the sooner it's finished, the better.

barry44

Re: Help Reading Water Reports

Post by barry44 » Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:05 pm

Thanks eric.

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