Getting Started.

(That's water to the rest of us!) Beer is about 95% water, so if you want to discuss water treatment, filtering etc this is the place to do it!
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Rhodesy
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Getting Started.

Post by Rhodesy » Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:15 am

Now I have a stable AG set up and can control fermentation temps, harvest yeast etc I am making the foray into water treatment being a complete novice. I had my water sampled which being in Scotland expected it to be soft. I have been reading up here but admit to getting confused at a lot of steps. I understand in alot of cases low Alkalinity is desired which I believe I have?

Anyway, I am aware of water calculators but not sure if this is what I should aim to for certain styles as a base or educate (at least try to) myself to being well versed, I understand it could more likely be a mix of the 2.

One other question I have is what and when to add? I admit to being a tad lazy here but just to understand that 'total liqour' applies to my total volume i.e. if boiling 40L then quote this or my total HLT or MLT volume? Also what additions get added where? Are there any tables kicking about about what gets added where? Below is my water profile, please feel free if anything jumps out.

Sodium as Na, mg/L 4.1
Potassium as K, mg/L 0.5
Magnesium as Mg, mg/L 0.9
Calcium as Ca, mg/L 8.9
Chloride as Cl, mg/L 6.5
Nitrate as NO3, mg/L 0.6
Phosphate as PO4, mg/L 2.3
Sulphate as SO4, mg/L 11.6
Total alkalinity as CaCO3, mg/L 16
pH 5.45
Conductivity, uScm-1 at 20C 70.6
Total residual chlorine as Cl2, mg/L 0.07

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Eric
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Re: Getting Started.

Post by Eric » Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:17 am

That water almost certainly comes from Loch Katrine or Loch Arklet where the rocks are impervious so the water is very little changed from that which falls as rain and will be consistantly so.

Unnecessarily high levels of alkalinity, as you suggest, have harmful affects on beer by causing the extraction of undesirables from the mash as well as producing imperfect conditions for subsequent stages through to the finished beer. Too low a level of alkalinity will also cause less ideal conditions, but for different reasons and different and less predictable outcomes, although generally not so damaging.

The greater the quantity of alkalinity in a liquor, the greater the pH of that mash (and subsequent stages if allowed) and when sufficient a point is reached where the beer is very compromised in flavours, clarity and stability. Conversely, the lesser the quantity of calcium (and to a lesser degree magnesium) the greater the pH etc. etc.

From that it can be seen that more calcium will compensate for extra alkalinity, but there comes a point where the amount of alkalinity cannot practically be compensated by extra calcium, so it is usual in such cases to use acid to neutralise the excess alkalinity. Now your water, despite its lack of alkalinity probably lies in a region that for pale beers, because it has little calcium it could result in a mash pH higher than is best using all pale malts. By adding calcium salts such as gypsum or calcium chloride flake, the mash pH will be reduced. You will have no doubt also realised the mash pH could be lowered if acid was used instead of adding calcium such that with a certain amount of acid a similar mash pH measurement would be achieved, but the two beers so produced would not be identical. Taking that further, by artificially increasing that water's alkalinity, then you could then add more calcium salts to maintain equilibrium and produce different beers again.

So your water is probably ideal for making lighter, hoppy, pale styles of beer with some calcium salt additions. To progress into maltier and darker styles it would be beneficial to increase alkalinity to allow for a more acidic grist and/or higher calcium salt levels. That does not mean you should not attempt to make them.
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Rhodesy
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Re: Getting Started.

Post by Rhodesy » Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:36 am

Eric, thank you for that response it is very informative and much appreciated. I have been looking at the GW calculator which is linked to on here and likewise reading up on the notes to obtain an understanding of what to add and when it should be added. I appreciate there may be no 'golden source' however are these calculators a good start to obtain a rough guide if aiming for specific styles (which again can be generic)?.

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Eric
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Re: Getting Started.

Post by Eric » Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:29 pm

If you've been looking at GW's calculator, you'll see that for some styles it will add alkalinity as well as calcium salts, which was my main thrust. I will not criticise that calculator, of all those available, I find his the most valuable for seeing what style a particular profile might produce. However, and I'll suggest Graham might even agree, it isn't vital that you get every ingredient to the last decimal point. in fact it is impractical to conceive such a possibility.
I've more or less got the opposite of your water, it almost constantly varies and alkalinity can at times exceed 250mg/l CaCO3, so without collecting rainwater or buying supplies I cannot make beers with low calcium levels, but do adjust alkalinity to every practical value with acids to make beers of all colours. There was a time when I chased my tail trying to control alkalinity without any ability to measure its quantity, but you won't have such as your water won't vary to any material degree and has the lowest practical amount of alkalinity. What problems you could have will likely be with clarity caused by the low calcium level in the mash and especially towards the end of the sparge when the sugars are mostly gone and their buffering effect lost. I don't know if you have a pH meter, but in your case it could be a worthwhile investment if you wish to experiment with making beers with your water as near to its natural form for the styles it will produce. If you used GW's recommendations you will be adding significant amounts of salts to avoid such problems.
Without patience, life becomes difficult and the sooner it's finished, the better.

Rhodesy
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Re: Getting Started.

Post by Rhodesy » Wed Jun 03, 2015 1:33 pm

Thanks Eric. I will have a go with the calculator for starters and make a beer I have done previously and try a side by side. I am going to invest in a PH Meter in due course once I get some other bits in

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Eric
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Re: Getting Started.

Post by Eric » Wed Jun 03, 2015 2:03 pm

Good luck. A pH meter has some good purposes, but there are many better uses for money in brewing. It's only recently with lower prices that they have become a practical investment.
Without patience, life becomes difficult and the sooner it's finished, the better.

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