Buxton Water for brewing?

(That's water to the rest of us!) Beer is about 95% water, so if you want to discuss water treatment, filtering etc this is the place to do it!
Galena
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Buxton Water for brewing?

Post by Galena » Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:26 pm

Just wondering if Buxton Water would be a good water for brewing as it is available free if you can be bothered to collect?

Per Liter
Calcium 55 mg
Magnesium 19 mg
Potassium 1 mg
Sodium 24 mg
Bicarbonate 248 mg
Chloride 37 mg
Sulphate 13 mg
Nitrate <0.1 mg
Dry Recidue at 180oc 280 mg
pH at source 7.4 mg

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Mashman
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Re: Buxton Water for brewing?

Post by Mashman » Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:30 pm

Ask the guys at Buxton Brewery?
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Galena
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Re: Buxton Water for brewing?

Post by Galena » Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:50 pm

Mashman wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:30 pm
Ask the guys at Buxton Brewery?
Is that what they use then? Can't see anything on their website about the water they use

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Dennis King
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Re: Buxton Water for brewing?

Post by Dennis King » Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:23 pm

Galena wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:50 pm
Mashman wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:30 pm
Ask the guys at Buxton Brewery?
Is that what they use then? Can't see anything on their website about the water they use
Most brewery's are quite happy to help home brewers with enquires.

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Northern Brewer
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Re: Buxton Water for brewing?

Post by Northern Brewer » Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:49 pm

Mashman wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:30 pm
Ask the guys at Buxton Brewery?
I'd imagine they're using tapwater, which in much of the Peak District is great for brewing - it's just rainwater that's run off (relatively impervious) gritstone. They'd be mad to use Buxton mineral water, which is groundwater that's soaked through limestone for a few centuries.

They do have the odd beer that explicitly nods to Buxton's origins as a spa town, which presumably get stuffed with something that is closer to the mineral profile of the mineral water, but in general I'd assume not.

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Re: Buxton Water for brewing?

Post by guypettigrew » Tue Jun 09, 2020 1:56 pm

Interesting water profile.

Not much calcium and a chloride to sulphate ratio of 3:1.

Depending on the type of beer you want to brew you could think about increasing the calcium to 100 or so, and swapping the chloride:sulphate ratio to about 1:2.

Guy

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Re: Buxton Water for brewing?

Post by Galena » Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:46 pm

Thanks all, so probably tap water as good as anything then, I am lucky enough to have about a dozen breweries within a stones throw of where I live so I'm sure to get some information. I am reading Palmer's book but not got to the water section yet but will see how what he discusses compares with Buxton Water and eventually get round to checking my tap water. Until then tap water and perhaps half a campden tablet.

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Re: Buxton Water for brewing?

Post by Galena » Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:54 pm

Mashman wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:30 pm
Ask the guys at Buxton Brewery?
Interesting Avatar, mine which Im use on another forum is the same, not yet set it up on here but it has a slight difference, found on the wall of a real ale pub I used to frequent.
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Re: Buxton Water for brewing?

Post by guypettigrew » Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:47 pm

Yeah, pretty crappy slogan.

Guy

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Re: Buxton Water for brewing?

Post by orlando » Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:23 am

Galena wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:26 pm
Just wondering if Buxton Water would be a good water for brewing as it is available free if you can be bothered to collect?

Per Liter
Calcium 55 mg
Magnesium 19 mg
Potassium 1 mg
Sodium 24 mg
Bicarbonate 248 mg
Chloride 37 mg
Sulphate 13 mg
Nitrate <0.1 mg
Dry Recidue at 180oc 280 mg
pH at source 7.4 mg
The big problem there is the bicarbonate. If you get yourself a Salifert kit to measure your alkalinity and some CRS/AMS you will deal with that fairly easily. However, having your tap water analysed would be a good starting point. Ask Wally Brew on here to do it for you. Your next "problem" is going to be John Palmer's water chapter. :?
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Re: Buxton Water for brewing?

Post by Galena » Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:31 am

orlando wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:23 am
Galena wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:26 pm
Just wondering if Buxton Water would be a good water for brewing as it is available free if you can be bothered to collect?

Per Liter
Calcium 55 mg
Magnesium 19 mg
Potassium 1 mg
Sodium 24 mg
Bicarbonate 248 mg
Chloride 37 mg
Sulphate 13 mg
Nitrate <0.1 mg
Dry Recidue at 180oc 280 mg
pH at source 7.4 mg
The big problem there is the bicarbonate. If you get yourself a Salifert kit to measure your alkalinity and some CRS/AMS you will deal with that fairly easily. However, having your tap water analysed would be a good starting point. Ask Wally Brew on here to do it for you. Your next "problem" is going to be John Palmer's water chapter. :?
Interesting, I will try and make contact with Wally Brew at some point then. I have a way to go as still in the extract chapters but I do fear the water chapter, even more so now that you bring it up :wink:

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Re: Buxton Water for brewing?

Post by orlando » Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:24 am

Galena wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 8:31 am
orlando wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:23 am
Galena wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 12:26 pm
Just wondering if Buxton Water would be a good water for brewing as it is available free if you can be bothered to collect?

Per Liter
Calcium 55 mg
Magnesium 19 mg
Potassium 1 mg
Sodium 24 mg
Bicarbonate 248 mg
Chloride 37 mg
Sulphate 13 mg
Nitrate <0.1 mg
Dry Recidue at 180oc 280 mg
pH at source 7.4 mg
The big problem there is the bicarbonate. If you get yourself a Salifert kit to measure your alkalinity and some CRS/AMS you will deal with that fairly easily. However, having your tap water analysed would be a good starting point. Ask Wally Brew on here to do it for you. Your next "problem" is going to be John Palmer's water chapter. :?
Interesting, I will try and make contact with Wally Brew at some point then. I have a way to go as still in the extract chapters but I do fear the water chapter, even more so now that you bring it up :wink:
Don't worry you will receive remedial wisdom if you do. My advice would be, don't bother. :wink:
I am "The Little Red Brooster"

Fermenting:
Conditioning:
Drinking: Southwold Again,

Up Next: John Barleycorn (Barley Wine)
Planning: Winter drinking Beer

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Re: Buxton Water for brewing?

Post by Northern Brewer » Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:11 pm

Galena wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:46 pm
Thanks all, so probably tap water as good as anything then, I am lucky enough to have about a dozen breweries within a stones throw of where I live so I'm sure to get some information. I am reading Palmer's book but not got to the water section yet but will see how what he discusses compares with Buxton Water and eventually get round to checking my tap water. Until then tap water and perhaps half a campden tablet.
Ah, I've just noticed where you are. You can get a rough idea from the Severn-Trent website, which has averaged reports for the supply to individual supply zones which you can search by postcode. So for instance, if you're in Buxton itself, you're looking at :

Hardness 3.43 Clark (50ppm CaCO3)
32ppm SO4
13ppm Cl
10ppm Na

That's beautiful soft water, everyone in SE England is throughly jealous! Not quite as soft as Plzen but not far off, you can see why the Peak District attracts lager specialists like Freedom and Taddington. You can also see the contrast with the groundwater that is bottled commercially.

So you've got a nice blank canvas, you will need to add some gypsum and calcium chloride though (a problem that many forumites would love to have!), and a Camden tablet wouldn't hurt.

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Re: Buxton Water for brewing?

Post by Galena » Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:20 pm

Northern Brewer wrote:
Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:11 pm
Galena wrote:
Tue Jun 09, 2020 4:46 pm
Thanks all, so probably tap water as good as anything then, I am lucky enough to have about a dozen breweries within a stones throw of where I live so I'm sure to get some information. I am reading Palmer's book but not got to the water section yet but will see how what he discusses compares with Buxton Water and eventually get round to checking my tap water. Until then tap water and perhaps half a campden tablet.
Ah, I've just noticed where you are. You can get a rough idea from the Severn-Trent website, which has averaged reports for the supply to individual supply zones which you can search by postcode. So for instance, if you're in Buxton itself, you're looking at :

Hardness 3.43 Clark (50ppm CaCO3)
32ppm SO4
13ppm Cl
10ppm Na

That's beautiful soft water, everyone in SE England is throughly jealous! Not quite as soft as Plzen but not far off, you can see why the Peak District attracts lager specialists like Freedom and Taddington. You can also see the contrast with the groundwater that is bottled commercially.

So you've got a nice blank canvas, you will need to add some gypsum and calcium chloride though (a problem that many forumites would love to have!), and a Camden tablet wouldn't hurt.
Thanks, that's great information and good to know, I just checked my postcode and its the same, though I could not see CaC0 Calcium Carbonate on the list at all?
Now I need to read up why I need to add gypsum and calcium chloride ;)
I don't drink much lager, usually just when abroad but that Moravka Classic is very nice indeed.

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Re: Buxton Water for brewing?

Post by PeeBee » Wed Jun 10, 2020 4:39 pm

You wont see any "calcium carbonate" reported, because there isn't any! What Northern Brewer was quoting from the water company website was "as CaCO3" but the "as" is often left off. It's a convenient way of describing such things. All "carbonate" will actually be "bicarbonate" at the reported pH7.4 (carbonate chemistry and "alkalinity" scrambles most peoples heads, mine for sure).

The water analysis is typical of acid moorland surface runoff, but a bit high in bicarbonate because in Derbyshire you are never far from the chalk.

Not so long ago I got involved in a mammoth thread that attracted some water "heavyweights" like Wally and Eric (plus "Silver is Money" from the States, author of "Mash made easy"). Find it here: viewtopic.php?f=35&t=82202. It's a bit of a long read but I bet you can learn more than from it than Mr Palmer's book. And it wont be distorted (much) by some weird "American" ideas about water.

As already mentioned, you will probably find your own tap water isn't much different from the one you've quoted in the OP. Get Wally to test it. I don't think any Derbyshire tap water is bore (ground) water, which would be heavily influenced by the chalk (very, very, alkaline). I used to live in Derbyshire BTW.
Cask-conditioned style ale out of a keg/Cornie (the "treatise"): https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwzEv5 ... rDKRMjcO1g
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