Boiling to lower alkalinity

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Eric
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Re: Boiling to lower alkalinity

Post by Eric » Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:23 pm

Yes, 120 ppm is probably the highest level of calcium I've seen in a water analysis in Great Britain. That level is likely the upper limit of commercial water supplies in the British Isles. I've measured higher calcium levels, but not from a source likely to be used for a domestic water supply.

As a rough and ready rule of thumb, I take half the level of alkalinity as CaCO3 to be a guide to the potential amount of calcium. In Matt's case, I would expect calcium to be close to 80 mg/L, much less than the Salifert kit test determined.
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Re: Boiling to lower alkalinity

Post by MattGuk » Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:05 pm

Well, I live just outside of Oxford, when using the Salifert kit for Alkalinity I assume that is CaC03, I multiply the MEQ/L by 17.85 as I read in another thread, maybe I have Calculated it wrong?
As for the Calcium test, to be honest that's quite straight forward and I am testing according to Salifert instructions and definitely ended up with 120ppm after the boil.
I know our supply is super hard water round here, the average hardness reported from Thames Water in 2019 was 244ppm as CaC03

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Re: Boiling to lower alkalinity

Post by MattGuk » Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:05 pm

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Re: Boiling to lower alkalinity

Post by MattGuk » Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:07 pm

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Re: Boiling to lower alkalinity

Post by MattGuk » Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:07 pm

So I have a reported Alkalinity on that along with total Hardness, maybe this is where my confusion comes in?

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Re: Boiling to lower alkalinity

Post by MattGuk » Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:12 pm

So, I have an average hardness of 244ppm as CaC03 and and average Alkalinity 152ppm as CaCo3, which is the important factor in that report?
When I measure the Alkalinity with Salifert I take the dKH measurements and Multiply them by 17.85 to get my Alkalinity, I presume as CaCO3 but maybe that is wrong?

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Re: Boiling to lower alkalinity

Post by Eric » Thu Dec 31, 2020 1:05 am

MattGuk wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 11:12 pm
So, I have an average hardness of 244ppm as CaC03 and and average Alkalinity 152ppm as CaCo3, which is the important factor in that report?
When I measure the Alkalinity with Salifert I take the dKH measurements and Multiply them by 17.85 to get my Alkalinity, I presume as CaCO3 but maybe that is wrong?
Yes Matt, your calculation for alkalinity using the Salifert kit is correct.

Hardness is roughly calcium times 2.5 plus magnesium times 4.1. Calcium is not given in that report, but magnesium is at 5.1 mg/l which gives a calcium level of 89.2 mg/l. That fits well with the other values given including those for sodium, sulphate and chloride in that report, but does question the accuracy of the Salifert kit calcium test.
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Re: Boiling to lower alkalinity

Post by Silver_Is_Money » Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:23 am

I concur with calcium = ~89.2 mg/L.

That places post boil Alkalinity at about 65 mg/L, and post boil calcium at about 54.4 mg/L.
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Re: Boiling to lower alkalinity

Post by MattGuk » Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:53 am

Thanks for your help here.
The 82ppm would be roughly from the time of the report, might that have changed?
Maybe I should add X amount of Calcium to X amount of distilled water to determine if the kit is accurate or not?

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Re: Boiling to lower alkalinity

Post by MattGuk » Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:54 am

Sorry, meant to say 89ppm

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Re: Boiling to lower alkalinity

Post by Eric » Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:19 pm

MattGuk wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:53 am
Thanks for your help here.
The 82ppm (corrected to 89ppm by Matt) would be roughly from the time of the report, might that have changed?
Maybe I should add X amount of Calcium to X amount of distilled water to determine if the kit is accurate or not?
From that report, your water would appear to be relatively stable and is likely sourced from a relatively large and stable underground aquifer. To be frank, the amount of calcium your kit measured was unusually high for a British domestic supply. I'll go further and suggest that its high level of gypsum will limit the level of calcium present in alkaline form, as I believe happens to water used for brewing at Tadcaster and potentially some water sources of Burton.

A long subject, but suggest you buy a cheap TDS meter and monitor your supply to determine its stability with a simple, short daily test. I no longer do a Salifert test of untreated water, instead the TDS reading allows me to do a primary adjustment of mash and sparge water with a Salifert kit test done just prior to mashing for any minor adjustment required, which is generally infrequently necessary. I have a spreadsheet from which all major ion levels are determined and what effect different acids can have.
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Re: Boiling to lower alkalinity

Post by Silver_Is_Money » Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:59 pm

MattGuk wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:54 am
Sorry, meant to say 89ppm
82 ppm and 89 ppm are both well within the ballpark of the highs and lows and averages given for your water. Whichever you choose makes little to no difference.
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Re: Boiling to lower alkalinity

Post by orlando » Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:38 am

Eric wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:23 pm
Yes, 120 ppm is probably the highest level of calcium I've seen in a water analysis in Great Britain.
16/7/20 Wally Brew measured mine at 138, down from 143 on a previous analysis. Anglian Water as the source. Be interesting to find out from him what the highest level is that he has analysed.

The OP could dilute his water 50:50 with RO or mineral water then add back Calcium.
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Re: Boiling to lower alkalinity

Post by WallyBrew » Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:44 am

orlando wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:38 am
Eric wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:23 pm
Yes, 120 ppm is probably the highest level of calcium I've seen in a water analysis in Great Britain.
16/7/20 Wally Brew measured mine at 138, down from 143 on a previous analysis. Anglian Water as the source. Be interesting to find out from him what the highest level is that he has analysed.

The OP could dilute his water 50:50 with RO or mineral water then add back Calcium.
Well from memory it is someone not too far from you. Most recent was calcium of 147mg/L but the worst part is he has approximately 350mg/L of alkalinity as CaCO3 to deal with. It is a borehole water.

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Re: Boiling to lower alkalinity

Post by orlando » Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:09 pm

WallyBrew wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 10:44 am
orlando wrote:
Fri Jan 01, 2021 8:38 am
Eric wrote:
Wed Dec 30, 2020 9:23 pm
Yes, 120 ppm is probably the highest level of calcium I've seen in a water analysis in Great Britain.
16/7/20 Wally Brew measured mine at 138, down from 143 on a previous analysis. Anglian Water as the source. Be interesting to find out from him what the highest level is that he has analysed.

The OP could dilute his water 50:50 with RO or mineral water then add back Calcium.
Well from memory it is someone not too far from you. Most recent was calcium of 147mg/L but the worst part is he has approximately 350mg/L of alkalinity as CaCO3 to deal with. It is a borehole water.

Sounds like it might be All Day Brewing? Only one I know near me with a borehole.
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