CRS or not to CRS... That is the question!

[Fingar]

Hi Folks,

There comes a point in a man's life when he thinks it is time take a hard look at his water! My analysed water report - the second time I have ordered from Murphy & Son - gives me an alkalinity as CaCO3 of 20ppm and my recent Salifert test put that reading at 17ppm. Am I correct in saying that there is no need to do any form of CRS? Looking at Graham W's water calulator, it puts the Residual Alkalinity at 20ppm as a default under the Carbonate Reduction Method, which is equal or more than my CaCO3 readings.

Murphys also recommend for Bitter and PA's, to use 24g of DWB to the mash, which I have been doing, but is there any benefit in following the sulphate and chloride recommendations from GW's calculator? BTW, Porters and Stouts advise different salt addtions.

Cheers... Fingar

[Jocky]

I don’t think you need CRS with alkalinity that low, but if you can stretch to it, get a pH meter to check the pH if your mash and you’ll know for certain then. The tricky bit you have is if you need to increase alkalinity for dark beers.

Personally I’d bin the DWB and buy a pot each of calcium chloride and gypsum. That way you can add calcium and then either add more chloride or sulphate depending upon how you want the beer balance to be.

[Eric]

You shouldn't have mash problems from alkalinity for most pale beers. There may be an occasional brew, one with lots of wheat and/or adjuncts, when mash pH will be higher than would be optimum, but mostly all will be well. That said, mash pH hasn't a fixed relationship between mineral content and grain mix, as a full volume mash will have a higher pH than that in a thick mash with identical waters and grains. Also, sparging with water the same as used for the mash, pH will rise as the sugars are rinsed from the grains, when a few drops of CRS in sparge liquor allows for a larger sparge and greater extraction.

As for darker beers, or those with a fair proportion of crystal malts, mash pH can be too low. Low pH increase the time to convert starch to sugar to potentially to greater than a standard mash period, or even worse, making lesser fermentable wort. To avoid this, alkalinity should be added to the mash liquor.

For Porters and Stouts, there is little benefit from sulphate additions as they dry the beer, which can enhance bitterness that some dark grains provide. Chloride helps with body and mouthfeel to bring out the range of chocolates, coffees, liquorice and a host of other flavours which will then allow bitterness from grains to merge with that from hops. Start with 200 to 300 ppm chloride in your darker beers.

In time you will determine your own preferred salt additions and ratios, even add magnesium to your stouts for extra flavour at a level to make many American brewers prefer committing Hari Kari to trying your beer. It's a great journey if you don't bound yourself by opinions.

[Eric]

You shouldn't have mash problems from alkalinity for most pale beers. There may be an occasional brew, one with lots of wheat and/or adjuncts, when mash pH will be higher than would be optimum, but mostly all will be well. That said, mash pH hasn't a fixed relationship between mineral content and grain mix, as a full volume mash will have a higher pH than that in a thick mash with identical waters and grains. Also, sparging with water the same as used for the mash, pH will rise as the sugars are rinsed from the grains, when a few drops of CRS in sparge liquor allows for a larger sparge and greater extraction.

As for darker beers, or those with a fair proportion of crystal malts, mash pH can be too low. Low pH increase the time to convert starch to sugar to potentially to greater than a standard mash period, or even worse, making lesser fermentable wort. To avoid this, alkalinity should be added to the mash liquor.

For Porters and Stouts, there is little benefit from sulphate additions as they dry the beer, which can enhance bitterness that some dark grains provide. Chloride helps with body and mouthfeel to bring out the range of chocolates, coffees, liquorice and a host of other flavours which will then allow bitterness from grains to merge with that from hops. Start with 200 to 300 ppm chloride in your darker beers. At that level you can afford sulphate to add to hop bitterness.

In time you will determine your own preferred salt additions and ratios, even add magnesium to your stouts for extra flavour at a level to make many American brewers prefer committing Hari Kari to trying your beer. It's a great journey if you don't bound yourself by opinions.

[Fingar]

Jocky/Eric - thank you for your replies

I don’t think you need CRS with alkalinity that low, but if you can stretch to it, get a pH meter to check the pH ...

Too tight for that but might have to suck it up! Any particular recommendation?

Personally I’d bin the DWB and buy a pot each of calcium chloride and gypsum. That way you can add calcium and then either add more chloride or sulphate depending upon how you want the beer balance to be.

Yes, this is probably something I will experiment with. I was wondering if DWB is a bit 'generic' and is a 'one size might on occasions fit all'. I do get get good results with DWB on my bitters and pale ales, but want to see if dabbling with calcium chloride and gypsum provides scope for improvement, which probably fits in with what Eric says:

You shouldn't have mash problems from alkalinity for most pale beers.

Murphys do advise a mixture of other salts for Stouts , which is definitely an area I would like to improve, especially regarding body, and yes, it would be great to bring out some of the different flavour possibilities.

For Porters and Stouts, there is little benefit from sulphate additions as they dry the beer, which can enhance bitterness that some dark grains provide. Chloride helps with body and mouthfeel to bring out the range of chocolates, coffees, liquorice and a host of other flavours which will then allow bitterness from grains to merge with that from hops. Start with 200 to 300 ppm chloride in your darker beers.

I'll get back to when I brew a my next stout - probably an oatmeal stout which I have done before so it will be good to make a comparison. Also I have a couple PA's to brew with hops which I have never used before - Sabro and Hellertau Blanc - so would like these to be hop forward ales.

Cheers... Fingar.

[Jocky]

DWB is a fixed ratio of water treatment. Buying individual salts will let you tweak towards fuller dark beers or drier hoppy beers.

Other than that if you’re serious about water treatment then a decent pH meter is a must. The voltcraft meter I have now costs between £65 to £90 depending upon where you buy.

BUT… Having understood the balance of my water source a few years ago I don’t measure pH until I’m on an iteration of a recipe where I don’t think recipe changes are improving things.