lager using pale instead of lager malt???

[Gurgeh]

Anyone got a recipe for a lager, but not using lager malt?

...or do you have to use it to ensure some DMS?

[edit1now]

What about 100% pale malt, but using typical lager hops (Saaz, Hallertau etc.) and a (lot of) lager yeast? Start the fermentation indoors and then move it into the cold once the yeast has got going. It'll look like lager, taste like lager, and only you will know it has pale malt

Use something like my Munich Dunkel recipe but with entirely pale malt - you could up the hops quite a lot if you want to head towards pre-takeover Pilsener Urquell, or massively if you want Jever Pils.

[Aleman]

I don't use Pilsner malt just to get the DMS profile . . . There is just no way of being able to control the final level that it is easier to ensure that as little as possible remains . . . after all in a good pilsner the DMS level is around 30-60ppb (Just below the taste threshold)

But you can make great lager using British lager malt and even Pale malt . . . its just a bit more malty

[Gurgeh]

What about 100% pale malt, but using typical lager hops (Saaz, Hallertau etc.) and a (lot of) lager yeast? Start the fermentation indoors and then move it into the cold once the yeast has got going. It'll look like lager, taste like lager, and only you will know it has pale malt

Use something like my Munich Dunkel recipe but with entirely pale malt - you could up the hops quite a lot if you want to head towards pre-takeover Pilsener Urquell, or massively if you want Jever Pils.

Sounds like a good plan - that Dunkel must be seriously malty! and I've got some research to do with those suggestions

I can't see how any vegetative smells or flavours could be desirable in a any beer. I'd just pick a lager recipe and switch out the pale/lager malt directly. I did it with Dave Lines Budweiser and (Low colour iirc) marris otter and US05. It came out like Budweiser but I drank it any way

Don't really know much about lager, but sometimes it's just right. I thought a small amount of DMS was supposed to be characteristic/desirable. I'll be happy to skip it!

I don't use Pilsner malt just to get the DMS profile . . . There is just no way of being able to control the final level that it is easier to ensure that as little as possible remains . . . after all in a good pilsner the DMS level is around 30-60ppb (Just below the taste threshold)

But you can make great lager using British lager malt and even Pale malt . . . its just a bit more malty

I read somewhere that slower or delayed chilling would cause DMS pre-cursors...? Though obviously that doesn't give any control over levels. interesting to see you all agreeing that DMS is not desirable - that suits me just fine.

I have had bookmarked for sometime your bohemian pilsner thread Tony, I had figured that using 100% pale would be about as malty yet blonde as the mixture you employed. Obviously not as complex though.

and that Dunkel is appears to be all about malt. hmmm....
Thanks gents, i'll give it a whirl!