Kit adaption, DME or LME

[RichardG]

Well guys, I've reached the stage where I wish to start adapting standard kits on my way to extract and then AG brewing. The basic plan is to take a standard kit, say a Coopers as they seem popular, then add additional malt with hops / grains steeped and / or boiled. Now I've seen the 'Hints and Tips' section top right which states that 1kg of LME gives 300 gravity points. However, because it's been dried I understand that 1kg of DME gives more; but I'm not sure how much more. Can anyone advise? Further, can anyone who has any experience of this give any insight as to the relative merits of LME over DME or vice versa, or whether it actually makes any difference at all? Any advice would be gratefully received.

[sparky Paul]

I've seen the 'Hints and Tips' section top right which states that 1kg of LME gives 300 gravity points. However, because it's been dried I understand that 1kg of DME gives more; but I'm not sure how much more. Can anyone advise? Further, can anyone who has any experience of this give any insight as to the relative merits of LME over DME or vice versa, or whether it actually makes any difference at all?

1Kg of spraymalt is roughly equivalent to 1.5Kg of liquid malt extract.

The advantages of dried malt extract (Spraymalt) are principally that it keeps better, and it's easier to work with, once you get over the issue of clumping when it's added. I've brewed with liquid and dried malt extracts, and the difference is very marginal - perhaps the spraymalt gives a very slightly lighter finished beer.

[RichardG]

My thanks sparky. So, it seems I may as well go with DME given that there appears to be no noticeable difference to the end result.

If I may ask a follow-up question; can anyone also provide me with some insight into the different hop options, namely, the merits of loose, pellet, and vacuum packed hops. Which is best? My instinct suggests that the vacuum packed will be fresher, but what do I know?

[sparky Paul]

Yes, good fresh vacuum packed hops are generally the best quality hops to use, but good loose hops can be fine too. Pellets probably stay usable the longest, but are harder to work with - you need a fine strainer to remove them, or a fine net bag to contain them.

If you suspect that any hops aren't as fresh as you would like, you can add a few more to compensate... however, if they are old and smell 'cheesy', discard them. Keep open hops in tied up bags, with the air squashed out, in a sealed container in the freezer.

To be honest, I use whatever I can get of the particular variety I need, and loose or vacuum packed are most common.

[RichardG]

I'm thinking about 15g for 20min, with another 10g + the elderflower steeped for another 10mins. How does that sound? Thinking of Challenger if I can get them, or maybe Goldings.

[THE EMBALMER]

this sounds interesting with the elderflower was thinking along these lines to try and replicate badgers golden glory . use a suitable kid ,dont know which would be best but add some elder flower ,maybe finishing hops? dunno but if it was some where near i would be happy . sorry to butt in thanks glyn

[RichardG]

No problem Glyn, feel free. this'll be the first kit I've ever adapted and guess what, I was aiming for a Golden Glory-ish brew as well! Something that SWMBO can enjoy as she hasn't liked the styles I've done so far. The whole point of forums like this to swap ideas, so all are welcome to comment!

Golden Glory has peach blossom in it, which I doubt very much is available, so the elderflower seemed like a reasonable substitute to give that floral aroma. I'm hoping that someone reads this whose had a similar crack and can give any points to success. Here's hoping!

[sparky Paul]

I'm thinking about 15g for 20min, with another 10g + the elderflower steeped for another 10mins. How does that sound? Thinking of Challenger if I can get them, or maybe Goldings.

Your choice of hops would be fine, quantity okay too, but I would tend to split it one third in the boil, and two thirds for the steep, as you usually trying to add more aroma than flavour and bitterness. I would try 10g boiled for 10 mins in two can fulls of liquor, then steep a further 15g for 20-30 minutes for a start. Perhaps add the elderflower half way through the steep.

Obtain your boiling liquor (wort) by emptying the contents of the cans into the fermenter, then fill the can will boiling water to dissolve any residue. Empty into a large pan and repeat so you have two can fulls. Then add your hops and away you go... after doing the boiling and/or steeping, strain the resulting liquor into the fermenter.

[sparky Paul]

I just edited the above post, I was completely on the wrong track thinking this was the lager thread...

Oh well, back to the beer...

[RichardG]

No problem SP, your input is more than welcome. At least it suggests that my thinking was on the right track! I guess this will be the beginning of my journey to the Dark Side!

[RichardG]

By the way, as a supplmentary question to this, I've been replacing the kit supplied yeast with S-04. However, I seem to recall from elsewhere in the forum that Coopers use this as standard. Can anyone confirm or deny this?

[RichardG]

Got a Coopers Draught today for adapting. Could the Coopers brewers on the forum let me know their experiences of the kit supplied yeast? I usually use S-04 instead, partly because it's an 11g packet unlike the kits yeasts that tend to be 6g-7g as the Coopers yeast is. I'm going to be adding DME, maybe 1kg-1.5kg, and possibly 500g glucose if I feel really brave! Will the Coopers yeast cope?

[sparky Paul]

Got a Coopers Draught today for adapting. Could the Coopers brewers on the forum let me know their experiences of the kit supplied yeast? I usually use S-04 instead, partly because it's an 11g packet unlike the kits yeasts that tend to be 6g-7g as the Coopers yeast is. I'm going to be adding DME, maybe 1kg-1.5kg, and possibly 500g glucose if I feel really brave! Will the Coopers yeast cope?

I'm currently supping a Coopers Draught, made with 1kg beer kit enhancer as it was intended as a light beer, and I added a few Progress hops IIRC. To be honest, I don't think I would make it again... it's drinkable, but certainly nothing special. It's very light indeed and has bitterness, but is lacking flavour, so I would probably now go for at least 1kg of medium spraymalt to give a bit of extra malt flavour and colour, and something more aromatic in the hop department.

I'm pretty sure the Coopers yeast is S-04, it certainly behaves exactly like S-04, and even the small sachet they supply has no problem fermenting the strong Heritage Sparkling Ale with 1.8Kg of added dry fermentables. I always use the Coopers yeast when I do a Coopers kit.

[arturobandini]

DME vs LME

The feedback I was getting regarding these two when I was thinking of going extract or knocking up a kit with LME was that you can sometimes get that twang associated with homebrew from LME. Probably something to do with it being canned?

[sparky Paul]

DME vs LME

The feedback I was getting regarding these two when I was thinking of going extract or knocking up a kit with LME was that you can sometimes get that twang associated with homebrew from LME. Probably something to do with it being canned?

I've heard it said, but I've brewed with both and can't say I've noticed any problems. The canned extract has always been fresh though - liquid extract certainly darkens with age, so there must be some ageing process going on.