First AG attempt

[jrugman]

Trying today to brew something like Theakstones Old Peculier based on a recipe from H & G and what I had to hand:
23L
4000g Pale Malt
400g Crystal Malt
150g Chocolate Malt
300g sugar
56g hops - Fuggles & Northdown

All fresh ingredients from a well known online supplier. Electrim type boiler with mash bag.

Strike @ 73C Mash @ 67 - 64C 90 minutes.

Sparge with approx. 4 galls water at 70C for 30 minutes ex. fine rose watering can.

Boil with hops 60 mins, chilled with DIY immersion chiller.

Approx. 4 galls wort made up to 5 galls with tap water.

Predicted OG around 1060.

Actual OG 1032!!

Can't see where I went wrong as I took great care to follow recommended procedures. Any advice please.

[edit1now]

Did you measure your gravity before the boil? I use a cheap refractometer so I know when to stop sparging (2 degrees Brix or 1.008), and then if the wort is a bit thin I'll boil it for longer. Measure again at the end of the boil, or before the final hops, and decide if you need to boil-off some more, or conversely add more liquor to dilute the wort.

Why did you dilute the wort with a gallon of water? By my calculations you had 4 gallons at 1.040 before the dilution

[jrugman]

Thanks edit1now

I didn't measure the gravity before the boil - I guess I just assumed that if I followed the recipe fairly closely and took care with temperatures and times then the OG should be about right within a few points plus or minus.

The recipe was for 23L (5galls) so I just made it up to that volume, again assuming that the starting gravity would be about about right for a brew of around 5 to 6% ABV, which is what I was after.

When I checked the gravity of the full 5 gallons, I was astonished and disappointed to note the gravity was only 1032 which I guess would mean pretty weak beer after fermentation. Maybe my main mistake was to make assumptions about anything on my first AG brew.

Cheers, John.

[Eric]

Yes, you're learning like we all have and I still do.
To be honest, I'd likely get a bit over 1050 with that recipe and that's after quite a lot of brewing. I'm not saying it isn't possible, just that for me, high efficiency extraction is still elusive.

[Cheshire-cheese]

My first ever all grain brew (a good few years ago) was with an Electrim boiler and grain bag. It was the Guinness recipe from Dave Line. The result was very disappointing: watery and insipid. Can't remember the OG, but I have a feeling it was lower than expected. Since then I have stuck to avoiding the grain bag until lautering and then, for the simplicity of not transferring the mash, mash in a mash/lauter tun made from two brew bins, one perforated and the other tapped.
I felt that all the grain so compact in the grain bag effected the efficiency. I could be wrong, but that was my feeling. All subsequent brews have been satisfactory.

One day I will make the effort to work out predicted OG and thus mash efficiency.

PS: in the interest of clarity: I have not repeated the Guinness recipe with my current Mashing method so can't rule out the recipe as a source of the dissapointment.

[jrugman]

Thanks Eric & Cheshire-cheese.

Sounds like my mashing bag procedure may have been at fault resulting in poor extraction. Next time I'll try something different, probably the false bottomed tun described elsewhere in this forum. The grain certainly did seem compacted in the bag despite some vigorous stirring halfway through the mash.

Really great to have such an informative forum as this!

Cheers,

John

[Maltloaf]

I'd second what Eric said about the recipe. I'd be looking at 1048 from those ingredients, so you're not as far off as you thought.

How much water did you mash in? I'd expect to get more than 4 gallons after sparging with that amount. Maybe you need to mash a bit thinner and save less water for the sparging. There's calculators and stuff and at least one long discussion about volumes, but aim more like 2gal to mash and 3 to sparge.

ML.

[jrugman]

Hi maltloaf

I found a simple formula in a fairly old book (1977) which suggested: 2 galls mash water + 4 galls sparge = 5 galls wort. It looked straightforward enough so I just did it. I'm not really interested in all this technical stuff and just want a simple and reliable procedure for making 5 galls AG brew of good strength. I have done many "no sugar" kits and though the results were not exceptional, I did for the most part get a decent pint for my trouble.

Since my first post, I have found a transparent plastic bucket some 11" diameter and 10" tall which means it fits snug inside a standard 5 gall FV. I am thinking about drilling the bottom with numerous 2mm holes and using this arrangement (on small wooden blocks) as an alternative to the mash bag.

I would appreciate any comments about this method and whether it offers advantages over the mash bag system.

Cheers,

John

[Cheshire-cheese]

In my opinion, if it's more capacious than your mash bag, then give it a go. Make sure the plastic is food grade, though.

With your current kit, I'd be tempted to heat your water to just above strike heat, pour it into a brew bin, stir in the grain, wrap it in blankets and leave for the duration of the mash. Then pour into the grain bag and boiler arrangement to lauter and sparge.

[Maltloaf]

I can't coment on the bucket with holes method personally, as I haven't been down that route. Best thing you can do is brew more, but don't change too much at once if you're chasing down a process error. Don't dismiss the grain bag straight away (although it sounds like you have ), I know it's possible to make good beer with it.

How is the brew doing now? I hope you threw the yeast in anyway? Beer from an OG of 1032 is still going to beer, and pretty soon too.

I can see where the "not interested in the technical stuff" comes from, it can get quite silly. Don't despair, it wants to be beer!

ML.

[jrugman]

Well, it's probably heresy but I kept adding ordinary sugar until the gravity reached 1044 (about 1k) - then I added the yeast and it's now fermenting very vigourously.

It smells horrible but I guess that's usual. Also I added a protofloc tab near the end of the boil and when, using my DIY immersion cooler, the wort had cooled, I noticed a sort of thick "cotton wool" deposit on the bottom of the FV. Is this what is meant by a hot and/or cold break?

I didn't have any malt extract to hand and living in West Wales couldn't easily get hold of any. So I am now expecting to get some reasonably strong beer but possibly with the dreaded sugar tang.

John

[Maltloaf]

jrugman, there are many types of "horrible" when it comes to fermentation smells! 1kg sugar in 4.5kg malt is fairly ( ) high, but you may be ok. Depends what you managed to extract in your 1032! You may have managed to balance a truck load of residual sugars giving yourself an un-reproducible nectar of the gods. Here's hoping, eh? You'll kick yersel' and spend the rest of your days trying to do it again!
ML.

[Cheshire-cheese]

Ah, the accidental and unreproducable success. I once woke up from a heavy night out and wandered into the kitchen to find it looked like there had been a bomb in a bag of flour. There on the table was a pile of the most delicious chocolate chip cookies. Have I managed to reproduce the recipe? No

[jrugman]

Cheers maltloaf and Cheshire-cheese!

I am beginning to feel better already and contemplating AG No2 in the nearish future. Its difficult not to get a little anxious with first time AG, I guess.

The horrible smell is abating, the fermentation has quietened and the colour looks as though its going to be TOPish.

John

[Deebee]

I am by no means an expert ( he he only 2 AG brews)

The guy that showed me used ( as most do) a simple freezer box, as a mash tun. He made a tight fitting copper pipe that laid on the bottom and a standard Gardenea hose connection with Tap. I did the last brew in the kitchen, the mash started at 66.9 or something and stopped at about 66.5. I wrapped a fleece blanket around it.

I likely mashed too thinck though as when i got to 21 liters ( suposedly 25) the run offs were completely clear.

After the 90 minute boil i added another 1.5 liters boiled water to thin the wort down and hit an OG of around the 1056 mark. After fermentation which was slow in the start, i have a FG of 1014 making something around 5.7%

The set up was dead simple and really cheap to make too seems to work well.