Paulaner Wheat Beer Clone

[SMASH3R]

Hi brewers,

I am looking for a clone recipe for the German Paulaner beer. Had a few pints of this recently and I thought it was really good - I especially liked the banana-like flavour which is more pronounced than with any other wheat beer I have tried.

I could do with help on all aspects of this as I don't have the first idea how to clone it. I have had a good root through the forum, but haven't picked up anything for this specific beer. I am looking for the following particulars:
Grain bill for 5 gallons
Mash temperature
IBU and EBC
Hops and schedule
Dried yeast choice (I have yet to make the transition to live yeast due to cost)
Any additional ingredients and when (e.g. orange peel, coriander seeds - or could I just add a few cloves at some point?)
Unusual processing temperatures e.g. do I ferment at a high temperature? if so, what would be ideal for the yeast choice?

Hope someone can give me a shove in the right direction.

Cheers and good brewing

[adm]

I don't know for sure, but I would imagine that it's probably a simple grain bill - maybe 50/50 wheat malt and pilsner malt, then hopped to somewhere around 12-15 IBU with Hallertauer or another German hop. Most of the flavour will be from the yeast itself, and to be honest, you won't get the same flavour with a dried yeast (I have tried before and failed). You really should splash out on a liquid yeast for this - you can always re-use it, or grow it and then split it, so in the end it won't cost you any more than dried yeast. WLP300 or Wyeast 3068 (both are meant to be the Wiehenstephan yeast) would do it. Safale Munich [Edit: DANSTAR Munich] is meant to be the dried version of the same yeast, but to my palate it doesn't come close. Which is a shame.

I also doubt there's any spices or anything like that in there - that's more of a characteristic of Belgian Wits. With a German Weiss, the flavour is all about the yeast. Make a 1 litre starter and ferment at 18C for the banana flavours - if you overpitch, you won't get as much, and if you ferment too hot, you'll pull more clove flavours than banana. I may be talking out of my arse here....

Mash schedule for this is probably a decoction mash at the brewery, or a step infusion mash if you can do that. Failing that, a straightforward 66C mash will work fine.

Using this much wheat, you might want to play safe and add 500g of oat husks to make sure the mash doesn't stick. If you do, wash them first so they don't add flavour.

[SMASH3R]

Thanks adm.

The yeast thing doesn't come as much of a surprise, and to quote Stallone one of his least-bad acting roles as Judge Dredd "I knew you'd say that". I think your suggestion is the one to go for i.e. get the yeast, and split it from a starter and then keep in the back of the fridge in a sterilised bottle for the next batch.

I looked at the Paulaner bottle in the supermarket this evening - wheat malt is the bigger ingredient, but no more clues than that. The ingredients were nice and simple; wheat malt, barley malt, hops and yeast.

With regard to sparging, my false-bottom mash tun (as-per DaaB's false bum) seems to be pretty stuck-mash free, so a few oat husks added should almost guarantee an easy sparge.

I have not carried out a stepped mash, and I use an insulated FV for mashing. I believe that the purpose of stepping the mash is to get better extraction from moderately modified malts. If I am using my MO pale malt; this is highly modified. I believe that any wheat malt that I would be likely to buy should also have good diastic activity. Does this mean I can essentially forget about stepped mashes and just go with a single-temp 66°C mash and still get (almost?) equally good results?

[adm]

I'd say so! A straight forward infusion mash should do you just fine. And if wheat is the bigger ingredient, then maybe go 60/40 wheat/barley.

Pale malt will give you a slightly darker (and probably tastier) beer than Lager malt, so if that's what you've got, I'd just with that.

Sparge hot too - the wheat gets gummy as it doesn't have a husk (or something like that), so you want to keep it hot to stop it sticking.

There's no need at all for a step mash (or a decoction), it's just something you can do if you like fussing about! I read that a protein rest at 50C will stop the wheat from getting too gummy later on, and a 40C acid rest will bring out more phenol characteristics, but I don't know if it makes a big difference or not. I just did a beer like this last week, so it's too early to tell.....(and I had some oat husks, so i chucked them in anyway....)

[DarloDave]

As for fermentation temps, Theres something about a 30 rule that works well for Weiss beers, like, your pitching temp, and fermentation temp should equal 30. For example pitch the yeast at 12C, ferment at 18C. But I dont know if thats just a myth..or something ive just dreamed up

[SMASH3R]

Can anyone comment on the better style of yeast for this beer, or are the Wyeast 3068 and WPL 300 almost identical.
I notice the Wyeast is suggests fermentation between 18°C and 24°C, whilst for White Labs it suggests 20°C to 22°C.

[leedsbrew]

I have only used wlp300 but I have done a Schnieder Weisse and a 60/35/5%, Wheat/Lager/Munich weisse with it. Both fermented at 18Deg C and both have fantastic banana flavours from the yeast. After failing with dried wheat yeasts I can whole heartedly endorse this yeast if your looking for banana flavours

As far as I was aware wlp300 and 3068 are the same yeast

Mr Malty has a comparison of the two brands at the bottom of this page

[awalker]

Safbrew WB-06 is the best dried yeast for this, in my opinion, if you do not go the liquid yeast route

I will never use Danstar Munich again its horrible stuff, very phenolic wheat beer with this
I dont think its the same as wb-06 as some say, but just my opinion

If it is now the same I will have to start using liquid instead.

[WHL]

This is a pretty good thread on weissbier and Paulander in particular:

http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtop ... an#p355548

[leigh1919]

Interesting points re the yeasts - im trying my first wheat very soon with the Danstar Munich. Version 2 will have another yeast in it. You're right though, all about the yeasts for these beers.

[mysterio]

I am a big fan of the WLP300 yeast. Since you are saving money by not buying many hops and speciality grains you can afford to spend extra on the yeast IMHO.

Ferment at 17C.

For Paulaner, I actually have the recipe from the brewery, but I got into trouble when I posted on here it but it's no secret if you look around. They use a bit of Caramunich and the tiniest amount of Carafa.