What am I doing wrong`

[keith1664]

I also thought that, I also noticed you only do one sparge, personally I split the sparge water into 2 and do 2 sparges. This would probably increase your efficiency and hence the OG.
Out of interest do you have any brews planned in the near future?

[oldtimer]

Thanks Guy

That maybe one of the answers I am looking for.
yes I mash at 66c with 20ltrs of water. because I am a novice at this and need to ask advice, this was the system I was told to use.
So If I read you correctly ( and I am thick). You are telling me to put less water into the grain in the first instance, thus mashing for 90 mins with less liquid.

If this is correct. how do I calculate the 'Take-up' of water to grain. Or to put it another way ( cos I am not sure if what I have just written makes sense to me) When I put the first lot of water on the grain, it will soak up a fair bit and still be a thick mass. How do I work out how much to put in initialy ?
If I use less water in the first place, how much water do I use in the second sparge to obtain 23 ltrs and allowing for the 'boil off'. Is there a rule of thumb to say how much will be lost in steam etc ?

Sorry if I seem a bit dim, but I really don't know what I am doing and want to learn to do it correctly.

[oldtimer]

Keith

I have sent you another PM.

Yes I plan another brew as soon as the old fat fella has been down the chinney. Like the following week.

[guypettigrew]

Interesting post, oldtimer.

You talk about adding water to the grain. It's best to add the grain to the water. When I mash I put the hot water into the mash tun at about 80C to heat the tun up. I leave it for 20 minutes or so, by which time it's dropped to 72C. I then sprinkle the grain over the water, about 1 1/2 kilo at a time, stirring it into the water after each addition. This gives me a final temperature of 66 to 67C. This is then left for 90 minutes before I begin to sparge.

My rule of thumb is; 5 kilos of grain, 12.5 litres of mash liquor, 21 litres of sparge liquor > about 26 litres of liquid to boil. In other words, a loss due to the grain soaking up the liquid of just over 1 litre per kilo. This volume will probably boil down to give you about 18 to 20 litres in the fermenting vessel after the hop strain, which will lose you a bit more liquid. I then top up with tap water to get me back to 23 litres.

Guy

[koomber]

Sorry if this has been covered, but do you degas your sample after fermenting? Sometimes bubbles of co2 can cling to the hydrometer and give duff readings. Most people spin the hydrometer but I personally go for a good shake before testing and then neck the sample for a taste test.

[oldtimer]

Yes, I did not make that very clear did I.
I do put water in the mash tun first to warm it up, then add the grain ,sprinkling in useing a scoop. I stir all the time. Sorry if I caused some confusion.
With my next brew I will put less water in the first instance, making allowances for grain take-up.

I do spin the meter several times before I take the reading. And yes, I do neck the sample. No point wasting it is there.

[MikeG]

What Guy said, most read 1.000 in water at 20C, it'll be on the hydrometer.
You should also take your OG and FG readings at 20C

Actually that is not quite correct. Strictly speaking the specific gravity of pure water is 1.000 only at Standard Temperature and Pressure. This is 4ºC and 101.325kPa in other words 1 atmosphere.

As brewers, we do not need to concern ourselves about this for two reasons:

• At 20ºC the specific gravity of water is actually just over 0.998 which means that the assumption that it is 1.000 carries a less than 0.2% error; the effect of pressure on water (a more or less incompressible substance) is even less of a concern.
• If you buy a hydrometer from a brew shop for checking SG's it will be pre-corrected to 15.6ºC.

To correct for other temperatures have a look at Jim's chart on this thread on hydrometers.

Mike

[Spud395]

Mine states 20C

[critch]

i have 15 stevenson reeves professional hydrometers. each one states calibrated at 20.c
the temperature correction chart i have states 20.c, i know you can get hydrometers calibrated for other temps but ive never seen one in the flesh.....

[oldtimer]

Fink I'll stick to mine being calibrated at 20c. I can't get to grips with all this to and fro.

d'oh my ead urts

Never the less, useful information for storage in the brain box.

[OldSpeckledBadger]

As others have said, you've got far too much water in the mash. The rule of thumb is 2.5 litres of water for every kilogram of grain. I actually mash slightly thinner than that by rounding up the strike water volume to the next litre up because I've found that a slight excess of water makes it easier to wet in that last bit of grain.

[oldtimer]

Thanks Badger

Thats a lot clearer,but as I batch sparge would you advocate sparging in two or three lots. Keith1664 says he sparges in three lots. I have been told to sparge in two.
But then again, up till now, thats the only way I have been shown.

[keith1664]

Just to clear that up oldtimer, I do the mash, run off, then do 2 batch sparges after that. The first time you add water isn't a sparge, it's mashing in. Then when you rinse the sugars from the grain is a sparge.

[MikeG]

Mine states 20C

i have 15 stevenson reeves professional hydrometers. each one states calibrated at 20.c
the temperature correction chart i have states 20.c, i know you can get hydrometers calibrated for other temps but ive never seen one in the flesh.....

Fink I'll stick to mine being calibrated at 20c. I can't get to grips with all this to and fro.

Well, that's quite convincing then. Mine doesn't say anything about a calibration point but it does say 1.000 with tap water at about 20ºC.

Anyway, what's wrong with just sparging until it doesn't look very brown anymore; do the boil; do the chill then measure the OG? This way you can get as much as possible in the boil so that you don't have to add tap water at the end thus increasing the mash efficiency and/or your OG.

Mike.

[OldSpeckledBadger]

Thanks Badger

Thats a lot clearer,but as I batch sparge would you advocate sparging in two or three lots. Keith1664 says he sparges in three lots. I have been told to sparge in two.
But then again, up till now, thats the only way I have been shown.

Theoretically 3 sparges or Keith's run-off/two sparges is more efficient than just two sparges but it's hard to say how much more efficient it'll be. I use a basic two sparge technique and I'm perfectly happy with the results so it's personal preference really.