Old Tom - Not dark enough??

The_blue · Post by **The_blue** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:14 pm

Hi, 'ive just spotted an old Tom recipe in the byobra book.

The recipie says OG 1080 and Colour EBC 99.

Recipie basics:-
23litres

Pale malt 6580g
Crystal 550g
White sugar 550g
Choc malt 185g

My working in Beersmith give me 43.1 colour after adjusting to match grains from WHS.

Any ideas where i'm going wrong?

jonnyt · Post by **jonnyt** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:22 pm

Brewmate gives 44.3

I reckon the book has a typo!

Spud395 · Post by **Spud395** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:34 pm

Pale Malt 5 EBC 14 lbs. 8.1 oz 6580 grams 83.7%
Crystal Malt 130 EBC 1 lbs. 3.4 oz 550 grams 7%
Sugar, Household White 0 EBC 1 lbs. 3.4 oz 550 grams 7%
Chocolate Malt 1050 EBC 0 lbs. 6.5 oz 185 grams 2.4%

Final Volume: 23 Litres
Original Gravity: 1.080
Final Gravity: 1.016
Alcohol Content: 8.4% ABV
Total Liquor: 35.6 Litres
Mash Liquor: 18.3 Litres
Mash Efficiency: 75 %
Bitterness: 0 EBU
Colour: 97 EBC

It may be Beer engine is giving the correct values for english malts, or that both are Graham Wheeler creations.

I've only used brewmate for a few recipe's and found the colour to be way off

Beer O'Clock · Post by **Beer O'Clock** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:02 pm

If it helps, some of the EBC values that are set as default on both programs can be a bit haphazard. Have a look at what EBC is valid for the grains you actually have. Change the values in the editing section and see where you are.

My grains have the actual EBC/SRM numbers on the labels. I change the value in the software when I buy new stock that is lighter or darker.

jonnyt · Post by **jonnyt** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:28 pm

I do get 73.1 in Brewmate using the figures for EBC above and I concur that setting the values to your actual grains (and hops) is the correct way to go with any recipe software

Spud395 · Post by **Spud395** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:19 pm

Beer O'Clock wrote:If it helps, some of the EBC values that are set as default on both programs can be a bit haphazard. Have a look at what EBC is valid for the grains you actually have. Change the values in the editing section and see where you are.

My grains have the actual EBC/SRM numbers on the labels. I change the value in the software when I buy new stock that is lighter or darker.

I guess you said it better than me beer'o, I find especially with crystal's they vary a lot and thats before you take lovibond V's EBC into account.
Where as with Grahams recipes if its crystal, its just regular crystal

The_blue · Post by **The_blue** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 10:28 pm

Glad it's not just me

I guess the best way is to brew it and try!

I spoted a picture in here from a search where someone had compared real old tom with clone and the colours wern't far off. I'd always remembered tom to be pitch black. Maybe that was me after a couple.

Tis strong stuff!

Thanks folk!

The_blue · Post by **The_blue** » Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:54 am

Well i've got a 5 litre batch mashing and it looks dark to me

The_blue · Post by **The_blue** » Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:14 am

It's about this colour

GeordieBrewer · Post by **GeordieBrewer** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:31 pm

The_blue wrote:Glad it's not just me I guess the best way is to brew it and try!

I spoted a picture in here from a search where someone had compared real old tom with clone and the colours wern't far off. I'd always remembered tom to be pitch black. Maybe that was me after a couple.

Tis strong stuff!

Thanks folk!

I don't think I ever got round to writing up my Old Tom clone a while back, but I did a colour comparison and it was very close - unfortunately I wasn't checking the EBCs of my malts back then, but have been doing so lately.

Original on the left, mine on the right

I used the BYOBRA book, and fermented with T-58 yeast, it was really close to the original, however my starting gravity was a bit short (might have just had a poorer mash efficiency on that day!)

The_blue · Post by **The_blue** » Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:00 pm

Hi, I got 1085 staring which i let down to 1080 but I'm now stuck at 1027 on the hydro

What did you get to regarding FG?

GeordieBrewer · Post by **GeordieBrewer** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:24 pm

The_blue wrote:Hi, I got 1085 staring which i let down to 1080 but I'm now stuck at 1027 on the hydro

What did you get to regarding FG?

My Starting Gravity was 1072 and it finished at 1012, so I guess that was around 8%. It finished a bit lower then I expected, but still maintained a good body. It seems that T-58 can eat through just about anything! It took a good few months to come into condition though.

The_blue · Post by **The_blue** » Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:48 am

Well i bottled it at 1027. Wasn't going any lower even after rousing and re pitching.

GeordieBrewer · Post by **GeordieBrewer** » Wed Feb 01, 2012 7:20 pm

Interesting Blue... I've occasionally seen beers finishing high, 1024 or so was the highest, but is definately possible due to type of yeast, and high mashing temperature creating a lot of unfermentables... It's possible you mightn't have a stuck fermentation, just a beer that will develop beautifully over time in the bottle.

Did you add any priming sugar when bottling?

The_blue · Post by **The_blue** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:28 am

Yeah, 4g a litre.

Bottles some into plastic and it's still not gassed. Going to move it somewhere warmer.

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Old Tom - Not dark enough??

Old Tom - Not dark enough??

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