All grain teething problems!

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BrewBoyJoe

All grain teething problems!

Post by BrewBoyJoe » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:45 am

Dear Friends,
Here is a description of my latest brewing endeavours! Any advice would be most welcome! So it all started with a Munton’s kit, followed by 2 malt extract recipes (Youngs special & TT landlord), progressing to all grain a couple of months ago, beginning with a Deuchars IPA, brewed to 4.5 rather than 3.8 further to brew to bottle suggestions Caledonian scientists (who make Deuchers) were kind enough to post online! Despite some mistakes and problems along the way it tasted fantastic, and my girlfriend and mates seem to agree!

My local water authority in Harrow (London UK), Veolia Water show hardness of 320mg / litres calcium carbonate, pretty much off the scale! Although I boiled the water the night before, and added just 1 gram of Epsom salts, after cooling the pH came out perhaps 5.0 (I appreciate this should be 5.3 sort of range) or even just below as determined with Indicator Strips from the hombrewshop (4.6 - 6.3) . Not sure how accurate they are but they're more expensive than most! The mash efficiency… Not sure how to work this out, but in any case matched (Graham Wheeler GW, a UK Homebrew guy who wrote a classic book) specifications exactly in terms of gravity per kg of Maris Otter. He maintains he uses conservative estimation for recipe quantities of malt, so perhaps I can get my efficiency up somehow! I’m fly sparging using Deulux Mash Tun (bought from The Home Brew Shop.co.uk) / not recirculating, although doing a slow sparge through tin foil sieve effect. Not sure why the pH would be below 5.0 although only just! Is this likely in Harrow! Should I add precipitated chalk after the boil and if so, how much per litre… Or mistrust my pH reading! Advice please! Tempted not to believe the strips!

The second beer is not yet complete. Again opting for a GW recipe, and had difficulty choosing between Hop Back Summer Lightning and the Exmoor Ale, but plumped for the Exmoor because of rave online reviews! To generate maximum value for money and quench unending thirst, I went for 40.5 litre volume in the brew pot! Problems…. Added challenger hops, to the rolling boil …. 80 grams as per the recipe :-), but it boiled over spectacularly, covering the kitchen with greasy green hop residues and sticky liquid. After it calmed, I chucked the remaining 20 grams in … slower this time, figuring a lot of hops must be on my kitchen floor after the boil over! The liquid dried out under the pan, generating a sticky toffee which set on fire! I had to move the 41 litre 100 degree liquid with brute force and sponge it sown / scower it off the stove…. Gravity reading showed 1.41, rather than 1.45 predicted, reading taking prior to incubating in fermenter, so will perhaps make up the remaining with DME!... only works out as 370 grams (a tenth of total sugar content) and should not give it a tang! Agreed? So… I used 1 x 29 litres closed plastic fermenter with airlock and 2 x gallon demis with airlocks! Opted for 1099 wyeast smack pack as it claims to give a slightly fruity characteristic which I like and worked a treat with the Deuchers! Didn’t smack it hard enough so didn’t break and was warm all day, just killing the cells I expect, and consequently the fermentation didn’t start for 24 hours! The last one started within 40 minutes! Note to self, don’t be lazy, do a yeast starter! Opted for Muntons gold yeast for the demis, more than anything to try out the difference between the liquid and dried yeast as part of a controlled experiment…. Particularly since GW is very disparaging of the dried… Though the book is getting on for 10 years old so is perhaps dried yeast technology has moved on?… anyway… So, tasted this morning after bubbles almost completely subsided and gravity = 1.016! after 2 days!… Tasted slightly too week, so definitely bump up to 1.045 (equiv at the start if you see what I mean) with DME…. Also, not sure of Munton’s yeast profile, but the beer … admittedly warm and unprimed but… It was extremely fruity / citrusy and not very bitter …. Not certain if that’s a good thing and won’t know for sure until bottled and tasting the finished product!

Perhaps the rolling boil disruption due to scraping sticky stuff off the stove interrupted hop extraction! I perhaps didn’t allow enough time for this at the end! Also, this is the first recipe with post boil hops, so perhaps this also added to the effect. Reading the beer profile in GW book, I don’t think it should taste so citrusy! I wonder if I can boil a pint of wort with some bitterness hops and give some more hop bitterness! I’m not certain it’s so fatal at the moment! Also, perhaps the 1099 yeast will add a different flavour profile! That one hasn’t nearly finished fermenting yet! Looking forward to trying that perhaps tomorrow as WY1099 seems to work a bit slower and didn’t get started for ages.... Does anyone know of a good step up from the GW book? Also, recommendations for good clone brew books?

Thanks for reading.

Best wishes

Joe

Brewmeister

Re: All grain teething problems!

Post by Brewmeister » Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:17 pm

Hi Joe,

This post takes a bit of digesting, maybe you could give the exact recipe of each brew?

If you don't already, you should use some brewing software.

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Eric
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Location: Sunderland.

Re: All grain teething problems!

Post by Eric » Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:43 pm

Welcome, great fun, isn't it? Books just fail to warn of those problems sufficiently, perhaps if they did it would be too offputting. It took me a long time to learn that my wife was right and I should use my limited skills in the garage to avoid wrecking the house or killing someone in the process.

That pH reading surprised me too, 6.0 would likely fit better with the water you describe. For very best results you will need to treat such water to reduce its alkalinity and if you look to the top right of the page and click on Image you'll find some good reading there. However, as you will also see, at this stage it could be better to hone your skills at avoiding crises with the likes of pots full of scalding liquids and all the other things that will go wrong, letting the science look after itself for a while. Meanwhile, if you didn't already, add some calcium back to the mash (sulphate or chloride) as the calcium in calcium carbonate will sediment after boiling your liquor. Leave the precipitated chalk to the wine makers, at least at this stage.

Good luck, don't be in too much of a hurry, you'll soon find the more you know the less you can rely on what you once believed. There's much more to it than recipés, gear and having fun.
Without patience, life becomes difficult and the sooner it's finished, the better.

nigelsch

Re: All grain teething problems!

Post by nigelsch » Wed Aug 15, 2012 12:17 pm

Just addressing your single point on water treatment. Solving this problem was the one thing that had the most
significant +ve affect on my brews. My water is similar to yours. I tried all sorts of methods, in the end my advice
would be:
- use palmers xms spreadsheet - it tells you how to adjust your mash given the ebc of the brew
- use CRS to adjust the alkilinity

I tried all the fannying about with ph testers & boiling, for me it was just too much effort. Using the above made things
so much easier and more predictable.

Good luck.

BrewBoyJoe

Re: All grain teething problems!

Post by BrewBoyJoe » Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:00 pm

Thanks so much for all the advice. Yes I agree, I'm starting to love this hobby!

So, BrewMeister. Here is the recipe and my conversion up to 4.5% ABV. BTW, when increasing the ABV in this way, what is the consensus on changes to specialty grains and hops. I wasn't sure and so kept the hops the same, but increased the specialty grains in proportion / as a percentage of total maris otter! BTW, this makes a fantastic pint, although I admit rose specs perhaps! Thought you might have a laugh at the notes made on brewday so posted these in as well! So.. given that the same variety of hops changes in alpha and beta year to year and various other factors, its a good idea to use brew software? What do people use and is there a good free one? Also, how can I find out if my pH strips are any good? I think they should be ok as I paid good money from a reputable homebrew shop, but at the same time the readings don't make a lot of sense given the hardness of my water and way i treated it!


Original recipe for 3.8% ABV 25 litres convert to 4.5% ABV

Pale Malt 3860 4571.052632
Chrystal Malt 250 296.0526316
Wheet Malt 125 148.0263158

start hops
fuggle 66 66

last 10 mins
styrian goldings 22 22

og 1038 1045


Likewise here is the other recipe! Not too sure if this is any good yet as discussed! Just pasted in the excel spreadsheet plus notes

Exmoor Ale
25 litres 3.8% 40.5 litres 4.5%
Ingredients
maris otter 3980.0 7541.4
crystal malt 355.0 672.7
chocolate malt 31.0 58.7

hops start
challenger 49.0 78.4

last 10 mins
irish moss 3.0 3.0

post boil
styrian goldings 10.0 16.0

boiled 40 litres of water night before but only cooled to just below 70 degrees by morninng, so racked and washed out pan. Not as much precipitated salt as expected so perhaps not all crash out of solution
however maybe worked ok because pH of mash was slightly below 5! Only added 2 gram of epsom salts for 18 litres of mash.
forgot to add chocolate malt until 35 mins into the mash
used about 18.5 litres mash volume
made up another 15 with crs
initial wort immediately after vorlov purge was 1.077
using sparge temp of 80 deg
1.058 for 22.5 litres of wort
forget all previous hydrometer measurements, just realised how temperature sensitive all these measurements are. Wort boil at 75 degrees was 1.030, leading me to worry, cooled but not completely and now 1.040

hydrometer 1.0465 at 29 degrees so add 2.3 if 20 deg hydometer = 1.049
46
49
0.93877551
37.5
39.94565217

made another 7 litres of liquor and added it just after the boil
total liquor used = 40 approx plus, 15, plus 7 = 62!

total beer volume = 29 litres plus 4.5 plus 4.5 = 38 litres about 2.5 litres trub, forgot to add moss till post boil, 70 degrees, so boiled the kettle and made moss tea then added it to the brew pan!
After several measurements, original gravity came out at 1.040 at 25 degrees!
This may be due to boil over after adding first hops! Added another 20 grams of challanger hops so total = 100grams! Thought a lot of initial hops must have boiled over out of the pan!
29 lit batch used 1099 whitbread ale smack pack, thought I'd broken the sachet but hadn't. Few hours later and nothing!
two gallon demis, used half a sachet of muntons gold in each bubbling away nicely!

Preliminary tasting of demi, very citrusy and not much bitterness! Maybe still like it not sure yet, but does taste slightly weak! Bumping up to equiv of 1045 og with DME

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