New BJCP Style Guidelines

[simmyb]

Mmmm, Grey ale, sounds yummy....

[PhilB]

Hi Graham

Someone, somewhere aught to be shot.

... I agree, we'll start with those who can't use apostrophes, and then move straight on to anyone who spells "ought" incorrectly

Cheers, PhilB

[alikocho]

Someone, somewhere aught to be shot.

*ought*

"aught" means anything at all.

Someone mentioned linguistic pedantry.


Back on topic - does it much matter what it is called if the guideline is understood by both brewer and judge? That is, after all, the purpose of these style guidelines.

AND - there will be a consultation period on these guidelines. You don't like something, say so when the consultation period opens (I'll post here), or tell me in a PM or email (I am the BJCP International Rep, so use me as such for things like this).

[50quidsoundboy]

does it much matter what it is called if the guideline is understood by both brewer and judge?

nope - this is why i'd rather it was called "black IPA" rather than some other name which will forever be referred to in conversation as "the category for black IPAs".

[boingy]

does it much matter what it is called if the guideline is understood by both brewer and judge?

nope - this is why i'd rather it was called "black IPA" rather than some other name which will forever be referred to in conversation as "the category for black IPAs".

This.

Regardless of how daft it sounds, Black IPA IS a style recognised by many. Give me a bottle with Black IPA written on it and I know what to expect. Whether it meets that expectation is different matter but it's a style that has been in use for a while. Rather than railing against it just be happy that there is now somewhere for the plethora of Black IPAs to compete, thus leaving space in other categories for other beers.

Language, beer styles and a whole bunch of other stuff have to be allowed to change and evolve with time. Otherwise we'd all talk like Shakespeare and be drinking unhopped ale.

But Graham, I'm definitely with you on "decimate".

[Graham]

Hi Graham

Someone, somewhere aught to be shot.

... I agree, we'll start with those who can't use apostrophes, and then move straight on to anyone who spells "ought" incorrectly

Cheers, PhilB

I never said that I can spell; for that matter I never said that my command of the English language is all that should be desired either. Like I said, I wish that I had paid more attention to the subject while I was at school.

In retrospect *ought" is entirely the wrong word to use, and being a modal verb, rather than an ordinary verb the words surrounding it are also inappropriate. Indeed, according to the Oxford dictionary: "Ought" formed as an ordinary verb rather than a modal verb, is found in dialect from the 19th century but is not acceptable in standard modern English. So there are standards, even by the Oxford dictionary, which is the usual bolt-hole of sanctuary for the "anything goes" brigade.

However, I cannot see my apostrophe error, unless you feel that I should have inserted the "greengrocer's apostrophe" in IPAs (making it IPA's).

It is also a curious political view, mentioned by someone earlier, that people who like the language and appreciate the propriety of diction are somehow oppressing those people who found it more interesting to flick paper pellets around the classroom than to pay attention to the lesson in hand.

[alikocho]

Ought is a modal verb in the sentence you used it in (or meant to use it in). Indeed, it is a deontic modal, as it carries a sense of necessity or obligation.

Now, do we want to pick apart grammar (and I'll happily play in six languages if you like), or do we want to get back to the original topic of beer styles and the revision to the BJCP style guidelines.

[Graham]

Ought is a modal verb in the sentence you used it in (or meant to use it in). Indeed, it is a deontic modal, as it carries a sense of necessity or obligation.

Now, do we want to pick apart grammar (and I'll happily play in six languages if you like), or do we want to get back to the original topic of beer styles and the revision to the BJCP style guidelines.

In my view, If the BJCP wish to apply a stupid name to a non-existent style, then they should keep it amongst themselves, those on the competition circuit, and not attempt to impose their stupidity on the rest of the home brewing world.

[alikocho]

Ought is a modal verb in the sentence you used it in (or meant to use it in). Indeed, it is a deontic modal, as it carries a sense of necessity or obligation.

Now, do we want to pick apart grammar (and I'll happily play in six languages if you like), or do we want to get back to the original topic of beer styles and the revision to the BJCP style guidelines.

In my view, If the BJCP wish to apply a stupid name to a non-existent style, then they should keep it amongst themselves, those on the competition circuit, and not attempt to impose their stupidity on the rest of the home brewing world.

Firstly, the style exists. Deny it all you want, but it exists. And the name is in common usage, and as noted above conveys a sense of what to expect.

Secondly, these are guidelines for competition judging. So, on your point here about keeping it to the BJCP and those on the competition circuit, that leaves you free to ignore it and not get het up about it on internet forums. Nobody is imposing anything on anyone.

[50quidsoundboy]

Firstly, the style exists. Deny it all you want, but it exists. And the name is in common usage, and as noted above conveys a sense of what to expect.

Firstly, the style exists. Deny it all you want, but it exists. And the name is in common usage, and as noted above conveys a sense of what to expect.

Firstly, the style exists. Deny it all you want, but it exists. And the name is in common usage, and as noted above conveys a sense of what to expect.

It is also a curious political view, mentioned by someone earlier, that people who like the language and appreciate the propriety of diction are somehow oppressing those people who found it more interesting to flick paper pellets around the classroom than to pay attention to the lesson in hand.

what a mean thing to say! unfortunately Graham i was one of those insufferable sods who was able to doss around in class and clean up in my English Literature 'A' level. i've always felt sorry for people who had to work harder to achieve the same level of academic attainment: perhaps this is why they sometimes rub it in peoples' faces instead of making their arguments only on merit.

your belief that your education entitles you to be in charge of how other people use a living language essentially puts you in the company of the retired major general spluttering in the letters page of the Telegraph his insistence that the word "gay" only means "happy", modern perversions be damned. it's reactionary, it's total rot, and far from being a "breath of fresh air" as some [INSULT DELETED - ADMIN] said earlier, it's about as fresh as a lightstruck bottle of Greene King.

[50quidsoundboy]

i shall now get my coat

[Jim]

Who would have thought a thread on beer style guidelines could descend into this!

Keep it civil, please!

[Matt12398]

It is refreshing to hear someone call it out as a stupid name for a beer style. Modernisations of the style I can understand but what for the most part tends to be typically an identical beer with dark malts or colourants added purely for aesthetic reasons (in the most part) just seems pointless. That said though, it doesn't incite me enough to want to post admin deletable insults at strangers.

[50quidsoundboy]

it doesn't incite me enough to want to post admin deletable insults at strangers.

heavy-handed modding imho but never mind. i was trying to be funny but got carried away, and for that i apologise.

anyway i didn't call you anything really bad - or did i??

[Matt12398]

I'll let you off.

Now...BJCP guidelines.