Bottles/Barrels/Kegs options compared

[simon12]

I only have experience with bottles and pressure barrels but am not that happy with either so am writing this to compare possible alternatives to decide where to go next please comment and correct anything I say and add any alternatives I am sure I have missed. I also hope others benefit from reading this thread.

Bottling
Coopers PET or glass with crown caps (bought or reused) both work well after about 10 batches I have mastered the cheap Wilko capper and no longer see the need for a bench one which I thought was going to be a must its just hard to get the knack. I just find all the washing, sterilising and filling take to long
Pros Cheap, works well, very transportable
Cons Time consuming

Barrels
In theory great but in practise very hit and miss. Assuming theres no leak there seems to be a fine line between leaking from the tap and flat beer and this is after trying 3 barrels, 4 taps and 4 caps. The no of posts in this forum and others lead me to believe many people have the same or other problems with them. Am I giving up to early?
Pros If they work well cheap and quick
Cons Either don't work well or takes much practice to get there. Hard to transport

Mini Kegs
At the moment they are my favourite option to try next, thinking of getting this or similar http://www.the-home-brew-shop.co.uk/aca ... OOG-_msXjc it looks to me like the main down side is it uses quite alot of gas (I have read around 1 16g cartridge per 2 mini kegs) and is not that cheap especially if you buy a second tap.
Pros looks quick and easy compared to bottling, fairly easy to transport
Cons you need to buy alot of 16g CO2 cartridges

ibrew system
This on paper looks a great option similar to the mini kegs but from what I have read it uses an insane no of gas cartridges.

Corny kegs
These where my favourite next option until I read the no of posts in this and other forums where people seem to have trouble getting the pressure right for dispensing and I don't think despite much reading on them I fully understand exactly what I need and how to use it. Please can someone explain exactly what is needed and say how easy and time consuming it is to setup and to use and clean.
Pros Can force carb and serve a pint just like in a pub.
Cons Cost of initial setup, not portable

Pub style kegs
As far as I can tell there is little difference to cornies except they are hard to clean for the home brewer.

[Fil]

ive had a lil experience with some of the options you list,

minikegs.. with a good quality tap including a simple pressure regulator they can work well but can have a limited life being steel with a film coat, you suck up a dirty 1/2 pint first, and without controllable pressure serve up like a pressure barrel inconsistantly pint to pint as the pressure drops
you can only condition to a mid level as a priming charge over 15-20g will ballon the minikeg with too much pressure, and while a easy to move shape, any movement can disturb the sediment requiering a day or so to settle again, and generating another dirty first pour as new sediment rests within the suck range of the dip tube

the ibrew system i expect to be similar to minikegs tho they should take more pressure when conditioning and not be susceptible to rusting

pubkegs/cornies, i use cornies but seldom put my hand in a keg to clean, but are easier to inspect.. But with real kegs be it cornies polykegs or SS crusader kegs, the keg is just a container and just a part of a dispense system without regulated pressure control AND at the very least appreciation of keg temperature and a stable cool spot to store them Or better some sort of temperature control, And a method to balance or restrict down the keg pressure befoer the tap point you wont have a lot of success with kegs..
this will illustrate the balance between keg temp and pressure
http://www.kegerators.com/articles/carb ... -chart.php

imho the initial outlay on a real keg system is worth it as long as you invest in the whole system, once set up consumables like co2 are cheap as chips, and cleaning sanitation cycle using co2 to push the cleaner and sanitiser out is way easier than 40 odd bottle cleaning sanitising duty, tho cornies with a 19l volume will also need some bottles or a minikeg to contain a 23-25l brew.

another option when faced with too much bottle washing is to use a few 2l pet bottles, good for when your entertaining, i find em easiest to pour out in one into a big jug to minimise sediment disturbance..

hope thats useful..

[Wezzel]

Another option is to spend an extra few quid on your barrels by adding pressure gauges and tyre valves to the lids.

You can see at a glance what the pressures is, whether you have a leak, and simply vent any excess pressure.

Low pressure gauges (0 - 15 psi) are available on eBay and tyre valves are a few pence from your local tyre shop. If you buy motorcycle type valves they have a locknut on the back so can be removed for cleaning.

My King Kegs work like a dream. If I'm not dry hopping, instead of priming, I barrel the beer a couple of points over FG and vent excess pressure daily to keep it under 10 psi until it stabilises.

Oh, and don't trust the pressure release valves to open at 10 psi or so. Often they stick which is why so many people complain about split barrels.

[simon12]

Thanks for the answers, I am still not sure what to get going forward.

[orlando]

Thanks for the answers, I am still not sure what to get going forward.

Because there is no simple answer. You have to decide out of all the options what is best for you, what compromises you are prepared to make. We all know the best beer in the World is properly brewed cask conditioned real ale, but it requires you to be able to cellar at the right temperature and serve within 3 days of opening to achieve this Nirvana. Getting as close to that as possible in a domestic environment is a challenge. It can be done with some investment. First you really need to sort out proper storage and in my view that is best served by a keezer, see below. This gives you other options too which I will come on to later. Gravity dispense is the ultimate method but going through a beer engine adds something as well, combine the two and we are getting really close. What about the 3 day window I hear you ask? Well that is dealt with by using a CO2 system that can deliver just enough CO2 to replace the volume of beer drawn off by the beer engine. Cask aspirators are available for this but are more money than they are worth. You can adapt a simple propane gas regulator to achieve the same thing. Some pictures now to illustrate the points made.

Keezer with Beer Engine note the gas board at the back.



Keg with gas regulator aspirator.




Close up of regulator.





Clearly none of this is cheap, another compromise, but a cornie set up is the other option you see, the kegs used here are 23 litres (Chinese rip offs available from the Home Brew Shop) and are a brilliant 1/2 way house. In my view wezzel's answer is a terrific option and one I adopted when I started on this path. I used King Kegs, fitted with Dalex taps and a tyre valve. The best option for the price and something that I would recommend starting with. The Hambleton Bard S30 caps and gas bottles are the way to go. Whatever you choose it will have a drawback but all are capable of giving you a great pint and a lot less hassle than bottling. By the way, my tip for this is rinse your bottle after pouring, spray into it some starsan and fit a plastic cap, fill with new beer, rinse spray with starsan, plastic cap, refill etc.

Good luck with your choice and if you go with the cask and beer engine option in a keezer, you need two things, a lot of cash and a sympathetic SWMBO.

[Kyle_T]

I've actually been working on something similar, not quite a Keezer but basically a 2 line/ 1 beer engine draught system. One running from a Polykeg and one from a 4 1/2 Gallon Cask, both on gas. Just means I can have 2 beers to choose from or I can mix as I pull.

But as Orlando says, you do need a lot of money, so far I have already spent £350 in getting it ready in including most postage, I reckon it'll be near the £550 by the time I get the casks.



Cheers

[orlando]

But as Orlando says, you do need a lot of money, so far I have already spent £350 in getting it ready in including most postage, I reckon it'll be near the £550 by the time I get the casks.

Add on a freezer, wood for the collar, perlicks or equivalent, not for the faint hearted. But, you can work up to it and there are few cheap chest freezers around 2nd hand. Wood isn't so cheap anymore, it's not like it grows on trees eh?

[paulg]

orlando ,what are the kegs/casks you are using in your photograph.It looks like a keg but I can see a cask tap at the bottom .Is it something you have modified.

[orlando]

orlando ,what are the kegs/casks you are using in your photograph.It looks like a keg but I can see a cask tap at the bottom .Is it something you have modified.

No, it's an upright cask, designed to be used that way to save space. I have it on "permanent loan" from a friend who owns a brewery to try out. I have a standard plastic keg which are awkward as they have to be on their side so I have just bought a cask ale extractor from Masons that does the same thing but has a flexible insert to draw beer from the cask. This is even better as you draw from the top so don't have space taken up by taps at the bottom of the cask. Yet again not cheap, (£50 inc p&p) but does come with two taps so you can have another lined up to quickly switch over.

[simon12]

If I wanted to go the corny route what is the minimum equipment I could use to get started then build up from there? I have an s30 cylinder if that could be used until I upgrade.

[Kyle_T]

I got the similar equivalent, a Caskwidge, here:

http://www.caskwidge.com/shop/index.php ... ucts_id=71

In hindsight for an extra tenner I probably could have stretched to the dual cask - single output so I can easily switch over casks but as I'm also running Polykegs I don't think it matters too much, I've yet to use it in anger...the time will come

[Kyle_T]

If I wanted to go the corny route what is the minimum equipment I could use to get started then build up from there? I have an s30 cylinder if that could be used until I upgrade.

Not an expert on cornies but something along the lines of, CO2 bottle, Primary Regulator, Corny, Tap of some sort.

[paulg]

thanks orlando
I have 3 plastic pins like the one in your picture but they dont fit well in my new kegerator even when on end.I can only get 2 in.
I have just invested in 4 20litre slim kegs from portinox,if I had been aware of these upright casks I may have gone that route.
never mind

[Kyle_T]

thanks orlando
I have 3 plastic pins like the one in your picture but they dont fit well in my new kegerator even when on end.I can only get 2 in.
I have just invested in 4 20litre slim kegs from portinox,if I had been aware of these upright casks I may have gone that route.
never mind

Portinox also do 4.5 Gallon pins you can stand upright and use the same gear...

[simon12]

Does this look like a good deal and a good place to start with kegs? Would I need anything else except a CO2 bottle and beer? http://www.kegkingdom.co.uk/collections ... -party-tap