Help with big, oak flavoured dark ale

[DeadFall]

So my mate got married the other day. I've promised that I'll make him a really big dark ale, flavoured with whisky soaked oak in time for his first anniversary.

I have a bag of dark roasted french oak chips and I plan to soak these in some Talisker Storm. But the rest is a bit of a mystery. It's my first foray into these style of beers.

How much of the oak chips will I need (I plan on a three month maturation period in a carbouy)?
Any ideas for a recipe? Think big Stouts, Porters, orcadian ales... Something along the lines of old engine oil would be great, maybe a bit of smoke in there and some marmalade.

I'm aiming for 12% and around 15L.

[seymour]

From Midwest Supplies website:

How Do I Use Oak?
A good proportion of oak chips for home use is 3 grams of chips per liter. To use oak chips, sanitize them in a 3-6 ounces of water and then add the chips and water to the wine.

Add oak chips to your wine after it has been racked for bulk aging. Use a glass or a stainless steel container. A handful of chips (about one-quarter cup) is all that is necessary to add complexity to the wine.

Taste your wine two to three days after you have added the oak. Continue until you notice the oak flavor. Then taste on a daily basis.

When your wine has reached the level of oak you wish, rack it off the oak into a clean container.

If you think more or different oak is needed, follow these steps again.

Remember, you can always add more oak, but you can't remove oak.

That's obviously pertaining to winemaking, not beer per se, but would still apply. Many homebrewers think of oak-aging in terms of months, and it's true many beers can stand up to more oak flavour than a delicate wine, but I would recommend tasting more frequently as this site suggests. You probably don't need to risk contamination tasting it every day, but once a week is a good idea. A little goes a long way. Much depends on the toast-level of your oak, the alcoholic strength of your beer, the level of residual sweetness to compete with, etc...

Mine was very bourbon-y after about two weeks, and after a month it was too much, the oak character nearly overwhelmed any other characteristics. Of course, the surface area-to-beer ratio of a barrel is different than suspended wood chips, but the idea is the same.

Recipe-wise, I would say "know your audience." Though most brewers associate bourbon barrel aging with Imperial Stouts, that can be an acquired taste which would alienate a lot of timid drinkers. A mellower, caramelly style such as English Brown Ale or Munich Dunkel would be a better crowd-pleaser, and still showcases the hardwood nicely.

[wally]

From Midwest Supplies website:

How Do I Use Oak?
A good proportion of oak chips for home use is 3 grams of chips per liter. To use oak chips, sanitize them in a 3-6 ounces of water and then add the chips and water to the wine.

Add oak chips to your wine after it has been racked for bulk aging. Use a glass or a stainless steel container. A handful of chips (about one-quarter cup) is all that is necessary to add complexity to the wine.

Taste your wine two to three days after you have added the oak. Continue until you notice the oak flavor. Then taste on a daily basis.

When your wine has reached the level of oak you wish, rack it off the oak into a clean container.

If you think more or different oak is needed, follow these steps again.

Remember, you can always add more oak, but you can't remove oak.

That's obviously pertaining to winemaking, not beer per se, but would still apply. Many homebrewers think of oak-aging in terms of months, and it's true many beers can stand up to more oak flavour than a delicate wine, but I would recommend tasting more frequently as this site suggests. You probably don't need to risk contamination tasting it every day, but once a week is a good idea. A little goes a long way. Much depends on the toast-level of your oak, the alcoholic strength of your beer, the level of residual sweetness to compete with, etc...

Mine was very bourbon-y after about two weeks, and after a month it was too much, the oak character nearly overwhelmed any other characteristics. Of course, the surface area-to-beer ration of a barrel is different than suspended wood chips, but the idea is the same.

Recipe-wise, I would say "know your audience." Though most brewers associate bourbon barrel aging with Imperial Stouts, that can be an acquired taste which would alienate a lot of timid drinkers. A mellower, caramelly style such as English Brown Ale or Munich Dunkel would be a better crowd-pleaser, and still showcases the hardwood nicely.

I have to agree with you Seymour, its really easy to overdo oak aging, especially in bourbon barrels.

I tasted a commercial RIS recently that was aged in bourbon barrels and it was overpoweringly flavoured with bourbon. In fact you could hardly taste the stout for the bourbon. Way too much. Better too little than too much IMO.

I like oak to add a bit of complexity, not to take over.

[DeadFall]

thanks for the info, I'll have to adapt it to my circumstances. This is plain roasted oak chips that I'll be using a islay malt to add some flavour. It should be a lot less sweet than bourbon barrels. I'll make sure I taste on a regular basis!

I'll do some digging for a decent recipe now.

This is the kind of thing I'm after. I won't quite get there as I don't have 40 years to age the whisky!

[Pinto]

Go try some Innes & Gunn oak aged brews to get an idea of what can be done with oaked ales. They are very sweet and vanilla-ry - but I personally adore them

I designed a clone of Fullers Golden Pride (which if you're interested I'll post later as its on my other laptop) - a dark and potent english ale / barley wine around 7.5% that would IMO carry some pretty hefty oaking very well indeed - one of my many hopes for future product as I have french oak chippings in stock in the brew cupboard.

Be careful with your whiskey choice as it would be quite easy to get something unsuitable - Talisker Storm is one ive not tried personally, but a quick glance at the tasting notes give smoke and spice as key notes of which I like the latter, but am unsure the former. I'd reccomend something like a Dalmore - well known for smooth, rich caramels and fairly available, and would suit the ale well

Edit - Wish I did have a recipe for Old Crafty Hen - need a recipe for Morlands 5X first....

[DeadFall]

Pinto, I live in Edinburgh mate. Home of Innes & Gunn I've had a fair few of their beers, but I can't say I'm a fan.

If you want to try a good beer aged in whisky barrels, check out the special reserve Dark Island or any of the Ola Dubhs. They're £10+ a bottle but worth it. Treat them like whisky and sip them slowly.

Too late on the Talisker Dark Storm. I've got 15g of dark roasted chips soaking in it already Going down the porter/RIS route should provide a robust enough beer to hold up against the whisky. That whisky is wonderful stuff, he's lucky I decided to sacrifice some of it. I found a few Old Engine Oil recipes kicking about, ola dubh is Old Engine Oil amped up to around 8% so I have something to work with now.

[edonald774]

I suspect a good "scotch ale" recipe is what you want.
I have oak spirals I use and usually two to three weeks is plenty. Too much oak and you lose all the malt flavours.

The different levels of toasting on the oak give you different flavours so work out what flavours you want and get the corresponding oak.

[Pinto]

If you want to try a good beer aged in whisky barrels, check out the special reserve Dark Island or any of the Ola Dubhs. They're £10+ a bottle but worth it. Treat them like whisky and sip them slowly.

Too late on the Talisker Dark Storm. I've got 15g of dark roasted chips soaking in it already Going down the porter/RIS route should provide a robust enough beer to hold up against the whisky. That whisky is wonderful stuff, he's lucky I decided to sacrifice some of it. I found a few Old Engine Oil recipes kicking about, ola dubh is Old Engine Oil amped up to around 8% so I have something to work with now.

Should have noticed your location - I know I&G Ales are a marmite thing -as to those others, I shall have to keep my eyes open for them - sadly, down here, decent brews tend be be harder to get; to most locals, "refined" means a splash of buckfast in their Frosty Jacks white cider

[simpleton]

I've just oaked a stout with a single chunk of JD barrel that weighed about 50g (22liters by the time it got the secondard). The beer was in the primary for 2 weeks and had settled down, I racked it into a secondary with the oak and intend to leave it there for at least another 6 weeks (as I move house then so cant go any longer, might keg it so I can move it and age it longer).

It was soaked in bourbon for 6 months as I intended to make this beer a while back but got sidetracked making beers ready for summer. In any case, 50g didn't seem like a lot but I was being cautious as I suspect too much oak will ruin the beer. It's not quite in RIS territory being only 1082. 50g of chips though would be considerably more surface area, so would differ in terms of impact I expect.

I didn't add the bourbon to the secondary, it was extremely harsh tasting. I expect it extracted quite a lot of tannins over that time frame. I'm going to to taste it after a week and see. I have 2 more similar sized chunks to add if needed.

I will post back when I check it.

[Wonkydonkey]

The only thing I can say and add to this is, and as others have said, taste regularly,

I put in some oak (clean English untreated oak) then I got the good old blowtorch out and slightly chard it. It was then soaked in some rum for a week. I Rinsed a little with water then after a week of being in the PB, which I just use as a yeast clearing vessel. I could taste it, then after 2wks it was a bit to strong flavoured for me. So it got drained into the cornie. If I could have given it time it may have mellowed a bit. But at the time of no beer, it got drunk slowly.


If I was to do this again, I would only soak 1/2 of the brew with oak and then use the other 1/2 to dilute to a more likeable taste.

Edit: the wood was 3 strips 75cm long by 1cm x2.5cm with saw cuts every 5-7 mm to max the surface area.
And it was a milk stout I made, but as I did not have any lactose at the time, it got left out.