Traditional Bock

[Monkeybrew]

I have only ever tried one Bock beer, but absolutely loved it!

I have been thinking about brewing some kind of AG lager for a while, and as my water doesn't seem any good for really pale versions, a dark malty Bock has become my choice of style.

Another reason for the need to brew a lager, is that I randomly added a vial of White Labs WLP833 German Bock yeast to a Malt Miller order a while back, and it needs to be used up by the end of May. I believe it's the Ayinger strain.

Here is the recipe that is ripped off from a well known book, but I've just scaled it down to 18L, and have slightly increased both base malts to match my expected efficiency.

Landrace Bock - 18L

2.250kg Maris Otter Malt - 5.0 EBC (43.2%)
2.250kg Weyermann Munich Malt 1 - 15 EBC (43.2%)
0.430kg Weyermann Carapils - 4.0 EBC (8.3%)
0.270kg Dingemans Special B - 300 EBC (5.3%)

32g Northern Brewer Whole Hops 5.4%AA @60mins
10g Tettnang Whole Hops 3.4%AA @30mins

Mash - 90min
Mash @65C?
Estimated OG - 1.064
Estimated FG - ?
EBU - 22
EBC - 54

WLP833 German Bock Yeast @12C - ?L Starter

I could do with some advice on the best mash temperature for this brew, I know it's a malty style, but should also be fairly well attenuated.

White Labs state 70-76% attenuation.

Also what size starter should I be aiming for, bearing in mind that I only have a 2L conical flask? I was think about making 2 or 3 1.5L starters over the coarse of a week.

Rightly or wrongly, I'm going to treat my water to GW's Mild profile because I see this brew similar to a high gravity mild - malty with low hop bitterness and also because my water is fairly close to that profile after some small tweaks. I'm just not too sure what alkalinity to aim for with this grain bill??

Hopefully I'll end up with something like this.



Cheers

MB

[stuartmclu]

I would use lager malt not Maris Otter to get some extra diastatic activity, then use Munich II not I, then replace the last two with dark Melanoid malt. The whole point is to get them melanoids in the brew. I've used WLP833 before and it think that it needs a BIG starter.

[Monkeybrew]

I would use lager malt not Maris Otter to get some extra diastatic activity, then use Munich II not I, then replace the last two with dark Melanoid malt. The whole point is to get them melanoids in the brew. I've used WLP833 before and it think that it needs a BIG starter.

Hi and thanks for your input.

I have already got all of the malt as per my recipe, but have got 250g of Melanoidin Malt 60 EBC, so what do you suggest I replace with it?

Cheers

MB

[Barley Water]

When I make say a 1.050 O.G. lager I take a tube of yeast and make up almost 3/4 of a gallon starter. I let the yeast drop, pour off the liquid and pitch a thick slurry. Since you are making a bigger beer frankly my advice is to make a smaller beer first then harvest the yeast to make the Bock. If you don't pitch enough yeast you will have under attenuated beer (been there, done that) plus you run the risk of fusels when you stress the yeast by under pitching. I would get the wort down to say 45F and if you have to go to 50F but no higher. Once the stuff looks like it has fermented out do a diacetyl rest, it will clean up the beer plus get just a bit more attenuation before lagering. You are exactly correct, you want the beer to dry out. There is a great big difference between sweet beer and malty beer; you want malty. A Bock can easily get cloying if you don't dry it out enough, good luck with your project, let us know how it works out.

[timbo41]

No advice MB but good luck and great post. If nothing else can be said for JBK it can be seen how some brewers have taken on all the advice in store and enhanced their skills . - remember those heady youthful days years back when using spraymalt in a kit was a big step now look at you.....joined up words and everything!! Top man by way that wild stand still there at colne , had a nose other day, its possible to get to root stock I think

[Monkeybrew]

When I make say a 1.050 O.G. lager I take a tube of yeast and make up almost 3/4 of a gallon starter. I let the yeast drop, pour off the liquid and pitch a thick slurry. Since you are making a bigger beer frankly my advice is to make a smaller beer first then harvest the yeast to make the Bock. If you don't pitch enough yeast you will have under attenuated beer (been there, done that) plus you run the risk of fusels when you stress the yeast by under pitching. I would get the wort down to say 45F and if you have to go to 50F but no higher. Once the stuff looks like it has fermented out do a diacetyl rest, it will clean up the beer plus get just a bit more attenuation before lagering. You are exactly correct, you want the beer to dry out. There is a great big difference between sweet beer and malty beer; you want malty. A Bock can easily get cloying if you don't dry it out enough, good luck with your project, let us know how it works out.

Great advice and something that I had completely overlooked as I was just thinking that I must use the yeast as it's nearing it's end date!

I've made a 1.5L starter, stirred it for 24 hrs, then chilled it for 24 hours and have now decanted it off into 2 sanitised jam jars and popped it in the fridge.

What I now plan to do is knock up a kit pilsner to around 1.044 in a few weeks time and then as you suggest, pitch the slurry from the kit brew into my Bock.

Cheers

MB

[WalesAles]

Oh! For Goodness Sake Monkey!
Go back to kits! You are trying to walk before you can run!

Great post anyway!

Don`t you just love JBK!

Yes! I am on a 7 different homebrewfest tonight and loving it!! Hic!

WA

[Barley Water]

Yeah I almost always use the yeast from one tube or pack at least twice (except for WLP300 but that's another story). Right now, I'm doing an Abby Single and this coming weekend the yeast from that is going into a Triple. After that, the plan is to do a couple of British beers (just to keep the kegorator full); I'll do WLP02 and make a best bitter then a brown porter (can you say Fuller's London Pride and Fuller's London Porter?). After that, it's lager time and the plan is to do a maybe a Helles, some type of pils and finally a Swartzbier. I hate making starters if I don't have to but I'm also a big one for wanting my beers to really dry out, especially the German lagers.

[Monkeybrew]

Oh! For Goodness Sake Monkey!
Go back to kits! You are trying to walk before you can run!

Great post anyway!

Don`t you just love JBK!

Yes! I am on a 7 different homebrewfest tonight and loving it!! Hic!

WA

It's all about the learning cure my friend, kit's are great and something that I'll never totally give up because they are so quick to knock up, but the quest for great beer is my ultimate goal within reason.

As you can see, I'll soon be knocking up a Coopers Pilsener to 20L with a Saaz tea, just to grow lots of lovely yeast for the Bock.

Double bonus hey?

20L of Pils and a happy goat!

Cheers

MB