Adding salts to the grain

[guypettigrew]

For ages now I've been adding Brupak's Burtonising salts to the grain before mixing it into the hot liquor in the mash tun.

The quantity is as recommended following a water analysis by Murphy's.

I add it to the grain because the Brupak site says 'This is most important as adding it to raw liquor will not affect the mash pH. '

Why is there a difference between adding it to the mash liquor and adding it to the dry grain? If it doesn't dissolve in the hot water surely adding it with the grain or before the grain will make no difference?

No doubt there's a very simple and sensible answer--I just don't know what it is. Yet!

Thanks.

Guy

[scotsloon]

I add salts to the liquor at the start when I'm filling up the boiler, I also add salts in proportion to my sparge water to keep consistency.

[guypettigrew]

So you don't add salts to the mash?

Guy

[McMullan]

Some salts don't dissolve readily in water. Adding them to the crushed grains can help.

[tourer]

For ages now I've been adding Brupak's Burtonising salts to the grain before mixing it into the hot liquor in the mash tun.

The quantity is as recommended following a water analysis by Murphy's.

I add it to the grain because the Brupak site says 'This is most important as adding it to raw liquor will not affect the mash pH. '

Why is there a difference between adding it to the mash liquor and adding it to the dry grain? If it doesn't dissolve in the hot water surely adding it with the grain or before the grain will make no difference?

No doubt there's a very simple and sensible answer--I just don't know what it is. Yet!

Thanks.

Guy

I've pondered this one and thought it would be best added to all the liqour for the mash and sparge so all the liqour contains the salts, but i really dont know. If anyone knows it would be appreciated.
thanks

[scotsloon]

It depends where you are in the country and the nature of your water, that's what dictates what you need to add to get the balance right. I still hold to the idea that its the water you need to treat rather than the wart.

[guypettigrew]

Some salts don't dissolve readily in water. Adding them to the crushed grains can help.

How?

It depends where you are in the country and the nature of your water, that's what dictates what you need to add to get the balance right. I still hold to the idea that its the water you need to treat rather than the wart.

But why do you have this idea?

Guy

[WallyBrew]

I add it to the grain because the Brupak site says 'This is most important as adding it to raw liquor will not affect the mash pH. '

I think you should just ignore that statement. Their example on there site uses 0.7g of DLS per litre. Cannot remember the exact composition of this but the calcium chloride will just dissolve readily and so will the epsom salts. If 50% of it was calcium sulphate it would only be adding 0.35g per litre. At 70C calcium sulphate should be soluble at about 1.8g/L.

If it doesn't dissolve readily it will be because the powder is too lumpy. If this is the case then buy all the salts separately and adjust to what you want and not someone else's prescription.

I add calcium sulphate at about 0.67g/L and have never had a problem with it dissolving readily into the hot mash water. Just stir vigorously and slowly sprinkle the salt in.

[scotsloon]

It depends where you are in the country and the nature of your water, that's what dictates what you need to add to get the balance right. I still hold to the idea that its the water you need to treat rather than the wart.

But why do you have this idea?

Guy[/quote]

Because you are creating the ideal liquor for the type of beer you are making. Different beers need different balances of salts in the water to help them achieve their best drinkability. You may have heard the term "To Burtonize" your water, all this means is to make your local water as close to the water which occurs naturally in Burton on Trent to make a brew which emulates the local Burton beer. If you look at a map of what beers are brewed in different areas you will find that there are areas of specialization based on the local water to that area.

[BenB]

It's true about profiles being averages and sometimes unhelpful. The listed water profiles are for the local water profile by a time when analysis was available. By that time the profiles had often diverted quite significantly from the water that was available when that area became known for a certain style and by that point brewers also had available salts, acids and other ways of adjusting their water.

Even if you look at brewing texts in the 1700s they talk of using well water for dark water and river water for light beers. So define the local "profile". The London water profile is a classic example- it started quite soft but as the Thames got more and more polluted and pollution got into the shallow well water, deeper (more mineralised) wells were dug. Everyone talks about Guiness and high alkalinity (as shown in the Dublin profile). But the Guiness brewery is fed from water drawn from the River Niffey long before it goes over the limestone area that gives the high alkalinity. I seem to recall Martin Brungard having done extensive work on Irish water profiles- I hope I have remembered his conclusions correctly.

So city water profiles are an average arm-waving profile measured at a time by the point brewers were already adding salts, mixing water sources and other things to get the liquour to what they needed to make a beer that often was originally made with quite a different water source.

In terms of the original question I have no idea! I've read a lot on water (certainly enough to muddy the liqour even further!) but opinions still vary....

I think the suggestion that you add salts to the grain is that the acidic mash conditions might help dissolve certain salts. But equally adding them to the water as it heats up gives it longer to dissolve and means the mash pH will reach target quicker.

[BenB]

Okay so its gets even more complicated than that...

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=476312



Martin Brungard gives some very interesting info on that thread, including the advice not to over-mineralise beer, so perhaps poor dissolving by adding to liquour rather than the mash isn't a problem

[guypettigrew]

Thanks everyone--this is really interesting!

My water analysis from Murphy is below. The recommendation for bitters and light beers is 17.25g of DWB salts per 25 litres of finished beer. I add all this to the dry grain at the moment.

Perhaps next time I'll try adding it to the hot mash liquor and see if it dissolves.

Guy

[BenB]

I may be wrong but I thought DWB was DLS and Burton water salts were a different blend.

[guypettigrew]

The man at Murphy told me Murphy make the dry salts sold by Brupak. So whatever I buy from Brupak will be the right stuff.

Guy

[BenB]

It's true. The salts and CRS Brupaks sell are rebranded commercial products. However there are two separate salts DLS (Dry Liquor Salts) and Burton Salts. So if you're using Burton Water Crystals you're not using what Murphy's recommended as they specified DWB which is DLS not Burton Water Crystals. The later is mostly Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate)- good for boosting sulfate levels of Burton Ales. For most other beer styles we'd use DLS which is a mixture of Calcium Chloride and Calcium Sulfate IIRC. It still pushes things most towards sulfate than cloride but not as much as Burton Crystals which are almost completely sulfate...