69C mash. Too high?

[Jim my]

I'm fairly new to all grain brewing and would like to pick the brains of those more experienced please.
I am trying to brew a nice, sessionable bitter of around the 4.5%abv mark.
I am just using mainly Maris otter with some black malt for colour in the grain bill.
I like full bodied beers and to try and create that I have mashed at 69C, do you think this is too high?
Can you get good body in a beer mashing around the 66C - 67C range?

[Mr. Dripping]

I've mashed as high as 71.....this was for a low abv beer that I wanted to retain some body in. The beer finished at 1012 with a fairly attenuative yeast.
69 will work as a mash temperature and all other things being equal it will be a fuller beer than if mashed at a lower temperature.
What yeast are you using?
The other thing you can play around with to get more body is mash time.....shorter mash times favour increased body, but do make sure you allow enough time for conversion.

[Jim my]

That's interesting. I mashed for 60 mins and am using wlp002 for the first time.
I've made a few mistakes on this batch. I was aiming for 20 litres in the FV at 1046 but ended up with 23 litres at 1044, I'm trying to dial in my figures on Beersmith but am still a bit out.
It had fermented down to 1020 yesterday (day 5) and has really slowed down in the airlock now.

[BrannigansLove]

I'm fermenting a smoked porter that I mashed at 69/70c. This was deliberate to increase the body, as my previous efforts at stouts/porters have been watery. Took a gravity sample at the weekend which was about 1.018, and tasted great, just what I'm looking for. Giving it a few days diacetyl rest, then cold crash and bottle.

[Jim my]

I'm fermenting a smoked porter that I mashed at 69/70c. This was deliberate to increase the body, as my previous efforts at stouts/porters have been watery. Took a gravity sample at the weekend which was about 1.018, and tasted great, just what I'm looking for. Giving it a few days diacetyl rest, then cold crash and bottle.

Thanks. I'm glad that others have mashed at 69C with success. What was the OG of your smoked porter? I've not tried a porter style yet, I'm trying to nail the best bitter style first but I like the sound of a smoked porter.

[Dennis King]

No problem at all. Keep records of temperature. I always log both the starting and finishing mash temperature

[MTW]

Lagunitas IPA is mashed at 71C... YES! a pale at 71C, as a single step. (Jamil show with head brewer, Brewing Network, 2009) That's my next but one brew, though I may shy off slightly and mash at 70C, still into alpha amylase territory more than beta, but allowing for a little inaccuracy in my practice and ending up with poor conversion.

[BrannigansLove]

I'm fermenting a smoked porter that I mashed at 69/70c. This was deliberate to increase the body, as my previous efforts at stouts/porters have been watery. Took a gravity sample at the weekend which was about 1.018, and tasted great, just what I'm looking for. Giving it a few days diacetyl rest, then cold crash and bottle.

Thanks. I'm glad that others have mashed at 69C with success. What was the OG of your smoked porter? I've not tried a porter style yet, I'm trying to nail the best bitter style first but I like the sound of a smoked porter.

OG was 1.050 (was meant to be 1.059, but I messed up my water calculations, and came up 2.5L up). Drinking Beavertown Smog Rocket the previous weekend inspired this brew. Let me know if you want the recipe.

[Jim my]

OG was 1.050 (was meant to be 1.059, but I messed up my water calculations, and came up 2.5L up). Drinking Beavertown Smog Rocket the previous weekend inspired this brew. Let me know if you want the recipe.

I'd love the recipe please, you can never have too many recipes!

[BrannigansLove]

Smoked Porter

Original Gravity (OG): 1.060 (°P): 14.7
Final Gravity (FG): 1.018 (°P): 4.6
Alcohol (ABV): 5.54 %
Colour (SRM): 41.2 (EBC): 81.2
Bitterness (IBU): 29.2 (Tinseth)

56.31% United Kingdom - Maris Otter Pale
14.16% German - Smoked Malt
9.82% Flaked Oats
4.98% Belgian - Biscuit
4.91% German - De-Husked Caraf III
4.91% United Kingdom - Brown
4.91% United Kingdom - Roasted Barley

1 g/L Magnum (13.7% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) ~30IBU

Water additions were made to give a Chloride/Sulphate ration of 1.55, and a pH of 5,57 (estimated using eZ water calculator).

Single step Infusion at 69°C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes. Efficiency used for recipe calculations was 70%.

Fermented at 18.5°C with British Ale Yeast WLP005

[IronBlue]

Jim my - Mashing at 69C is fine, I've had good success mashing high with 'session IPA' type styles such as Dead Pony Club, and it's great for Porters etc - it really helps to boost the mouthfeel. It just needs to be balanced against the reduced yeast attenuation to get the FG (and ABV) that you are aiming for.

Looking at my data for WLP002, I think you may get something like 68% attenuation at 69C mash (if you pitch enough healthy yeast). So 1044 should get down to around 1014. Although getting an accurate measure of mash temp is tricky. (You might only get 60% at 71C which would be ~1018 FG, so being just a bit out makes a lot of difference.)

When I build a recipe now I manually enter the yeast attenuation data in Beersmith until I get the FG that I expect based on my previous actual figures etc..

[The Epworth Brewer]

I'm quite surprised at some of these comments about mashing at 70c. It's well documented on JHB that for the past 12 months I was having problems with stuck fermentations. It turned out that the issue was a faulty thermometer that was reading 5 degrees under, so I was actually mashing at about 71c instead of my intended 66c. As soon as I bought a new thermometer it immediately cured the problem. Personally I would never deliberately mash as high as 70c.

[Mr. Dripping]

I'm quite surprised at some of these comments about mashing at 70c. It's well documented on JHB that for the past 12 months I was having problems with stuck fermentations. It turned out that the issue was a faulty thermometer that was reading 5 degrees under, so I was actually mashing at about 71c instead of my intended 66c. As soon as I bought a new thermometer it immediately cured the problem. Personally I would never deliberately mash as high as 70c.

I will stand by my original post on this subject....with vigour
I brewed two beers that were mashed at 71.....they were for a competition, so one test beer and then the one for submission.
In both cases I mashed at 71 degrees for 40 minutes .....OG 1031, FG 1012 for an ABV of 2.5%. The competition I entered had only one parameter....to produce a beer with ABV less than 2.8%.
The yeast I used was Wyeast 1469.

I'd be interested in the grist you used Epworth Brewer......I personally don't think that mashing at 71 was the cause of your stuck ferments. High mashing temperatures are a proven, tried and tested way of controlling the attenuation.

[IronBlue]

I'm quite surprised at some of these comments about mashing at 70c. It's well documented on JHB that for the past 12 months I was having problems with stuck fermentations. It turned out that the issue was a faulty thermometer that was reading 5 degrees under, so I was actually mashing at about 71c instead of my intended 66c. As soon as I bought a new thermometer it immediately cured the problem. Personally I would never deliberately mash as high as 70c.

Yes but you identify the problem in your comment - you were mashing 5C higher without knowing it. Your fermentations weren't stuck, they were complete at an attenuation about 15% lower than you expected, that's about 6 or 7 gravity points for a 1045 OG. If you control the situation, use the right yeast and understand what your attenuation (and target FG) should be, mashing warm it is a very valid technique.

[Kev888]

Yep, I've gone to 70c too for more body/higher FG, it worked as hoped. It could be fairly important to make sure the mash is well mixed though, as hot spots may be getting a bit too much.

Mash temperature is only part of the story of course, changing the makeup of the sugars produced. How your chosen yeast variety responds to those also affects the end result.

Cheers
kev