Pitched 2 1/2 month old yeast with no starter

[guypettigrew]

Part 2!

As to collecting yeast from an active brew, I sort of follow IPA's method.

About 24-36 hours into fermentation I rouse the brew really well. Then I scoop out 1/2 litre from the top using a sanitised jug, and collect as much froth (krausen) as possible. This is then poured into a sanitised Kilner jar type thing.

A small amount of yeast settles on the bottom of the jar. Plenty enough to make a new starter for the next brew.

Guy

[Jocky]

It's only what I do, but it works for me:

• Buy a 2 litre Erlenmyer flask

• put 115g of light dried malt extract into a litre of water in the flask and boil it on the hob for 10 minutes. You'll need to swirl it about a lot as it comes to the boil, then boil on a low heat. Or you'll get a really messy boil over!

• Put the flask in a sink full of cold water, with loads of ice if possible. The advantage of an Erlenmeyer flask is it can go straight from boiling on the hob into ice cold water without breaking

• Cool to about 25°C and add the yeast. Shake frequently, or use a stir plate. A couple of days later you'll have loads of yeast.

• Cool the flask to 12°C or below. The yeast will drop out. On brewday tip the spent liquid off the top of the yeast and pitch the sediment into your brew.

Good luck.

Guy

Just to add to this:

• Antifoam is a big help with starters to stop them boiling over.

• I'd also recommend getting a wire gauze to help with heat diffusion to the flask.

• I don't think you need ice in the sink to cool the starter. I just change the water once.

• With a stir plate my starters are usually nearly done in 12 hours.

[Kingfisher4]

Thanks Guy and Jocky,

That's really helpful, Allowing for an adaptation due to an induction hob ( thinking bain marie in a pan) will give that a try soon.

[guypettigrew]

Just to add to this:

• Antifoam is a big help with starters to stop them boiling over.

• I'd also recommend getting a wire gauze to help with heat diffusion to the flask.

• I don't think you need ice in the sink to cool the starter. I just change the water once.

• With a stir plate my starters are usually nearly done in 12 hours.

Great ideas! What's ' antifoam, please? Agree mostly about the ice. I find it helps in the middle of summer when the ground water is warmer.

Blimey, 12 hours! Wonder why mine always take 48 hours.

Guy

[Jocky]

Antifoam: https://www.murphyandson.co.uk/product/antifoam/

This is the silicone based antifoam which is highly effective. I stick a tiny bit on the end of a skewer and stir the starter for a moment, and it basically won't boil over then unless you get to a volcanic level of boil.

You can buy it in smaller amounts here: https://www.brewuk.co.uk/antifoam.html

If you're wary of putting silicone in your beer then The Malt Miller also sell a hop derived kettle anti foam: https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product ... hop-k-15g/
I've not had a chance to try it yet, so can't vouch for its efficacy.

[McMullan]

Hi IPA,
About to order my 1st liquid yeast and use your method above. Some practical advice for these basic questions would be great:

For a brew length of 25 litres, I assume a 600ml starter would suffice, should I get a 1 or 2 litre Erlenmeyer?

For the starter; is a malt extract solution best and what ratio of extract:boiled water do you suggest? I've seen some people freeze then defrost wort from previous brews as a starter solution.

I have a Grainfather conical so could take a sample of the actively fermenting yeasty 3 day wort directly from the sample port at the conical base (it takes it from above the 1 litre true / yeast dead space); i guess this would be the equivalent of you moving krausen and syringing a top sample from the fermentation vessel?

Many thanks.
[/quote]

No offence, but based on what you're asking my honest advice is buy some dried yeast and follow the instructions printed on the back of the sachet.

[Kingfisher4]

No offence, but based on what you're asking my honest advice is buy some dried yeast and follow the instructions printed on the back of the sachet.

No offence taken.

Happily, I've found 95% of the JBK forum members are generous and helpful with their wealth of experience and advice, so I've managed to brew 60 batches of a greater assortment of different beers than I could ever have imagined when I started 3 years ago all with dried yeast, thanks in no small part to that generosity! I therefore, surprisingly, have a good stock of dried yeast in my fridge already and am not only able to read and follow the instructions on the packet but have even looked up the manufacturer's more detailed specifications for each yeast.

I've found that this kindness has meant I've had enormous enjoyment and produced surprisingly good beer with "just" dried yeast, but would like to try some more "tricky wet yeast" and really liked the simplicity and elegance of IPA's method of reusing and reducing the unit cost. I could have PM'ed IPA and he would undoubtedly have helped, but felt that went against the spirit of the forum.

I will, as you suggest stick to dried yeast most of the time, for various sound reasons, but contrary to your advice will still dip my toes in the water / liquor of wet yeast as I and friends love English bitters and I suspect that the effort may prove fruitful in the pursuit of better bitter.

[guypettigrew]

Go for it K4. Wet yeasts are a world away from dried yeasts. The tips so far in this thread should mean you can make great beers.

Guy

[Jocky]

If you've been brewing a while then it's well worth getting into wet yeasts. The range is much greater, you just need to learn how to make a good starter, and have a method to aerate wort prior to pitching.

[guypettigrew]

If you've been brewing a while then it's well worth getting into wet yeasts. The range is much greater, you just need to learn how to make a good starter, and have a method to aerate wort prior to pitching.

Just to add a bit; Wet yeasts look a bit expensive on the face of it. But by carefully harvesting the crop you can significantly reduce the cost per brew.

Aerating? I thrash the wort about with a mash paddle once it's in the FV. A very primitive technique, but it seems to work for me.

Guy

[guypettigrew]

Antifoam: https://www.murphyandson.co.uk/product/antifoam/

This is the silicone based antifoam which is highly effective. I stick a tiny bit on the end of a skewer and stir the starter for a moment, and it basically won't boil over then unless you get to a volcanic level of boil.

You can buy it in smaller amounts here: https://www.brewuk.co.uk/antifoam.html

If you're wary of putting silicone in your beer then The Malt Miller also sell a hop derived kettle anti foam: https://www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product ... hop-k-15g/
I've not had a chance to try it yet, so can't vouch for its efficacy.

Thanks Jocky.

The info from Murphys is interesting. Especially the bit about a higher evaporation rate. Means I could sparge longer and still get the right length in the FV. The stuff about hop utilisation is also good.

So I've ordered the smaller amount from brewuk you linked to.

Guy

[IPA]

IPA wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:33 am
BenB wrote:
I'm curious- do you pitch the starter direct into 2L or step-up?
My brew length is 50 litres and I pitch the yeast into 1200 ml in a two litre flask. If it is over 12 months old then it's 500 ml and then 1200 ml.
Hi IPA,
About to order my 1st liquid yeast and use your method above. Some practical advice for these basic questions would be great:

For a brew length of 25 litres, I assume a 600ml starter would suffice, should I get a 1 or 2 litre Erlenmeyer?

For the starter; is a malt extract solution best and what ratio of extract:boiled water do you suggest? I've seen some people freeze then defrost wort from previous brews as a starter solution.

I have a Grainfather conical so could take a sample of the actively fermenting yeasty 3 day wort directly from the sample port at the conical base (it takes it from above the 1 litre true / yeast dead space); i guess this would be the equivalent of you moving krausen and syringing a top sample from the fermentation vessel?

Many thanks.

Hi Kingfisher

If you are brewing 25 litres just halve the above figures. 10 gr of dried light malt extract per 100 ml of water.
I have altered the way in which I store the fermenting wort. I now use this bottle.

Just simply close the swingtop when fermentation has ended

[Cobnut]

put 115g of light dried malt extract into a litre of water in the flask and boil it on the hob for 10 minutes. You'll need to swirl it about a lot as it comes to the boil, then boil on a low heat. Or you'll get a really messy boil over! [/list]

A word of warning based on my experience (i.e. the pain in the wallet I suffered!), don't try to bring cold water to the boil in your Erlenmeyer flask on a gas hob. I did this and the damned thing cracked across the bottom.

My usual process is to boil the water and DME in a saucepan first and then transfer to the flask (which has been sterilised in a 160C oven for 2 hours, with a small piece of aluminium foil covering the top). I realise there is a small risk of something getting into my starter that I don't want, but so far I've had no issues. One big advantage here - other than saving cracking the flask! - is it's much easier to prevent boil over in a lidded saucepan than in a flask (simply lifting the lid allows the bubbles to subside).

[Kingfisher4]

Thanks IPA,
A couple of liquid yeasts will be on my next Malt Miller order.

Although I could easily syringe a sample from the top of the actively fermenting wort, The chance of contamination would be less if I can use the Sample tap at the base of the conical. I am guessing it should be fine as that the concentration of healthy yeast will probably be fairly similar throughout 25 L at that stage of fermentation as it’s so active?

[guypettigrew]

A word of warning based on my experience (i.e. the pain in the wallet I suffered!), don't try to bring cold water to the boil in your Erlenmeyer flask on a gas hob. I did this and the damned thing cracked across the bottom.

Odd! If the flask is made of Borosilicate it should be OK. You must have had a duff one, Cobnut.

Guy