Sugar Sugar!

[Big G]

Im just about to try my first extract brew and had a querie about sugars!

I was always led to believe that normal cane sugar was a no no for brewing and to use brewing sugar instead. Now after a little reserch it seems that I was led to believe wrong! I have even come accross people using brown sugar & Invert sugar(syrup) as well.

Can anyone shine any light or pro's/con's of using these other types of sugars???

Thanks!

[Big G]

There are a few extract recipie's in one of Wheelers books that ask for....as well as malt extract, Cane sugar.

Was interested to see if that cane could be replaced with brown sugar or invert sugar(syrup). Maybe to increase flavour etc. I did read something that said invert sugar was easier to break down due to its chemical properties....if that even helps!!

[Manx Guy]

Hi Chris

I hope i'm not hijacking this thread... But after your helpful advice re: a Lager kit and S-23 lager yeast, I'm planning on repitching the yeast slurry and having a bash at DL's 'San Miguel' ( and lagering this for summer BBQ's) see thread viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24334

After a previous bad experience using a kilo of brewers sugar in a lager kit (tasted a bit cidery but was drinkable) I want to be sure I'm not going to repeat this by adding 2lb of Golden syrup as stated in the recipe

I have citric acid and am quite prepared to take the time and make my own invert syrup (possibly from un refined cane sugar -such as billingtons golden granulated)

Is this advisable, practical and actually worth the effort?

or is reducing the amount of suagr by half and making up with either malt or another adjunct (such as 'mashed' flaked maize or rice) ?

My aim is to reduce the chance of gettign a 'sweet lager' or one with a cidery taste to it.

Muchas Gracias!



Slainte!

[OldSpeckledBadger]

If you want to make decent beer then go easy on the sugar. 500g golden syrup sounds too much. I'd halve it and use an extra 250g malt extract.

[Manx Guy]

Hi!
For the avoidance of doubt...
Are you suggesting that 2lb (which is give or take almost a kilo) of Golden syrup best be changed to

750g LDME
250g Golden syrup/invert sugar

Wouldnt this give the beer more of a malty flavour and more body than the commercial San Miguel (not that either of those is a bad thing)


Many thanks!

Guy

[OldSpeckledBadger]

More malt = more flavour and body. Why try to make something like a rubbish Spanish lager when you can just as easily make something much, much better by simply altering the malt/sugar ratio?

[Manx Guy]

Fair point!

I'll let you know how the brew day goes and what I/my mates make of the resulting Lager...

This may turn into a Kiwi style full malt lager? which would be an interesting and good result!!!



Slainte!

[Manx Guy]

Hi!

Thanks Chris I'll be staying away from the golden syrup...

Even tho' SWMBO kindly bought a kilo tin for me, so I guess that will be going on my porridge! lol

Your suggestion looks tempting, however what do you suggest if I want to keep the ABV down to 5% ?

would I reduce the malt the sugar or both to keep the proportions right....?

Would mashed falked rice be an option?

I know its used in AG recipes....


Slainte!

[OldSpeckledBadger]

Flaked rice is only used for cheapness in the naffest beer.

[Manx Guy]

by 'naff beer' could you possibly be refering to a certain brand of American 'lager' ??

I've heard that the Big brand begining with 'B' is almost 40% rice.... could that be true?

So am I to assume that the best thing to do is adjust the amount of malt and sugar to keep the proportion approx. 75% malt:25% sugar to sufficiently lighten the lager but at the same time get a OG that will give me approx. 5% abv?



Cheers

Guy

[Chase24]

FWIW I think this discussion about ingredients is a bit of a red herring.

Rather than worrying about ingredients I'd suggest focusing on how you brew the beer: keep the wort fermenting at a consistent low temperature (12º) and then lager for 3 weeks at about 7º. Remember that most commercial breweries (and this includes San Miguel) have developed brewing techniques that enable them to produce very large quantities of beer at very low cost, and any efforts to replicate these styles are unlikely to succeed, irrespective of ingredients. I'd just get some good quality pale malt, some German hops and a decent lager yeast like Saflager. You'll be really happy with the results, as long as you don't let the beer brew at too high a temperature.

[Manx Guy]

Hi!

Thanks Chris and Chase for your comments...

I will take them both on board...

It wasn't my intention to get hung up on ingredients sugars etc...

I just wanted to understand why my last attempt at a lager turned out a bit sweet and cidery...

I have since learned that the way forwards is to use a mixture of malt and sugar (rather than 1kilo of sugar, as I did before) and use pitch plenty of S-23 or similar lager yeast and ferment at 12-15C (my last attempt was way too warm )

My lager has been fermenting at 12C for 6 days... took about 24 hours after pitching (@ 19C) to reach 12 although it was under 15C after about 12-16hours...

Thanks everyone for the tips!


Slainte!