Wheat beer query

[RichardG]

Not a big deal this one (At least, I don't think so!). Basic plan is to do a wheat before long. The idea is 60% wheat, 40% pale (that may become 70/30), Saaz to 20IBU's, and WLP300 yeast. I may also add some corriander seeds, but not so sure about that one yet. I have noted BW's comments about stressing the yeast by under-pitching and will probably follow his advice. I wonder if lager or pilsner malt would be a better alternative to the standard maris otter I otherwise use? Anything else obvious I've missed? I'll be bottling with a fairly high level of carbonation I should think.

[awalker]

lager or pilsner malt will be more authentic. But each to his own.
But what are you after and what do you have in stock?

If its not for competition and it does not have to be a TRUE wheat beer you could use Maris Otter
I have done wheat beers with maris otter and with lager malt, there is a slight nuttiness from the maris otter (more body what ever you want to call it)
But with a lager malt it is a lot lighter and more refreshing so better for hot summer days and more TRUE to style
But either way you will get a nice light beer.

If you use 60% wheat raise up the mash temp before sparging batch or fly, it helps prevent a stuck mash with wheat beers in my opinion.
Doing this I have made 80% wheat beers with no stuck mash

Good luck

[RichardG]

It's not for a competition, just something I want to try. Your comments about lager/pils malt gives me the answer I wanted. I'm after something nice and light for the warmer weather as opposed to 'true to style', and from what you've said, that's what I should get (all other things being equal!). I usually sparge at 80c, so hopefully no stuck mash!

[dean_wales]

Hi,

I am also worried about a stuck mash with my 50/50 wheat beer. Is there any danger in sparging with water a little hotter than my usual 80c - say 90c?

Thanks,

Dean.

[awalker]

Hi,

I am also worried about a stuck mash with my 50/50 wheat beer. Is there any danger in sparging with water a little hotter than my usual 80c - say 90c?

Thanks,

Dean.

you could do that but it will cause you some problems, with extraction.

If you batch sparge use 80oC water but use the first batch to raise the mash bed temp, then run off
If you contious/fly sparge might be worth dumping some 80oC water in first before you start the run off to raise the mash temp.

Or you can use rice hulls / oat husks (I think) to aid run off only used on my first wheat beer, hence being hazy on the names.

[ncmcdonald]

I have used Rice Hulls before to prevent a stuck sparge, I read that in Radical Brewing.

You might not want to sparge above 80C though. Sparging too hot will increase the chance of extracting tannins and undesirable compounds from the malt. It is also more likely to make your beer hazy but I guess the with the higher protein content in the wheat there is a fair chance it will be slightly hazy anyway.

[RichardG]

Further, if I'm correct on this, wheat beer generally has the yeast in suspension anyway, so it's going to be hazy. I personally wouldn't sparge above 80c.

[ncmcdonald]

Further, if I'm correct on this, wheat beer generally has the yeast in suspension anyway, so it's going to be hazy. I personally wouldn't sparge above 80c.

Yeah good point, most wheat beer yeasts and by the looks of it WLP300 are less flocculant so are not as willing to settle to the bottom.

[Barley Water]

A couple of things: First of all, rice hulls work great to avoid a stuck mash. My typical heffe grist is 70/30 wheat/barley and when you get that high, you can run into problems. I also close down the gap on my mill a bit when using wheat (to insure good extraction) as the kernals are smaller which adds to the potential problem. By the way, I always keep some rice hulls around when making any beer as insurance against a stuck mash. If I start having problems, I just stir them into the mash and it always fixes it. Second, as a previous poster stated, sparging hot can cause you to extract tannins although with wheat the risk is a bit less since there are no husks on the wheat (which is where the tannins are) although you still have the 30-50% malted barley to worry about. The way I get around this issue is to batch sparge and use that 5.2 buffer stuff. The way to get into problems with tannins is to let the ph of the mash rise which happens when fly sparging especially. Have you ever wondered why you don't have tannin problems when doing decoctions? The answer is because the ph does not rise while boiling the grist since none of the liquid is removed during the boil. Anyhow, both those little tricks have helped me out when doing my wheat beers.

As an aside, I did a couple of wheat biers recently and learned a couple of new things that I'll pass along. As I did last year, I made both a heffe and a dunkelweizen and I did a couple of things both of which worked out (this is all empirical evidence by the way, not scientific testing). Last years dunkelweizen didn't exhibit the phenols and esters enough, especially for a contest. Last year I made the heffe first and used the yeast cake to ferment the dunkelweizen, that was a mistake. The heffe had plenty of clove/bananna action (and won a second place metal) but the dunkel had very little. This year, I used a fresh tube of WLP300 on each beer (without a starter, as usual) and got way better results. Secondly, I read that doing open fermentations also gets you better yeast flavors. Again, I think there is some truth to that as both beers have more of the agressive clove/bananna flavors and aromas, especially the clove. I would also like to find a fermenter that has a lower ratio of height/width as I used my trusty carboys as usual. Our big contest is this weekend and I guess I'll just have to wait and see what happens but I am optimistic about both beers. Of course, all this is very subjective and I could easily get "skunked" so who knows.

By the way, if you want to use coriander in a wheat beer, I would use the wit yeast rather than the heffe yeast. Additionally, I think I would use something around 20% unmalted wheat and do a ceral mash. In my opinion, wit has a citrus presentation while heffes are more about the clove and bananna but of course, take that for what it's worth, afterall, it's your beer so do what you wish.

[greenxpaddy]

I have isolated Dingemans Pilsen Malt 25kg from Malt Miller for my witbier.

Question about priming a wit for bottling, there's a whole lot of orange peel, seed etc lying on the bottom of the fermenter. When adding the DME to prime are you supposed to boil it first into solution? Then when adding it and giving it a stir do you have time for the sediment to settle out before bottling or should you not stir very strongly so to avoid kicking up the sediment.

That said does anyone stir a ferment at all at any point? Haven't needed to so far its bubbling away happily

paddy

[RichardG]

As ever BW, many thanks for your input. My plan is to use WLP300 either without a starter, or maybe just a small one to confirm that it is viable (it's got a long way to travel over here to Blighty!). I've already binned the Corriander idea; it just didn't feel right for what I was trying to do, which is a passable Hefe. It may also be worth my while gettting some rice hulls if I can; I'm also a batch sparger, so that should help with the tannin issue, especially as I don't sparge above 80c (usualy at 75c). BTW, from what I understand, this is a yeast that you want to swirl back up into suspension when pouring?

[Barley Water]

Oh yeah, I think it is best when there are chuncks floating around in there. Just a bit of beer snobery if you will. When pouring out a wheat bier in a proper German wheat beer glass (you do have one of those, right?) leave the last little bit in the bottle. Then, shake it up real good or actually roll the bottle around on the bar after which you pour the contents into your glass. You should then see a big cloud of yeast as it disburses into the beer. Not only does it make the beer taste better but marks you as a man of distinction among your peers as one who knows how to properly enjoy a German wheat bier. Incidentally, we heap scorn on anybody we see with any fruit in their bier (they just love to put lemons in there for some reason over here).

I generally keg my wheats so I have a slightly different procedure to make sure I get my dose of yeast. First of all, I naturally carbonate in the keg (most others beers I keg I force carbonate) so that I have a nice load of yeast in there. If for whatever reason the yeast falls out of suspension, I have been known to actually shake the entire keg so that I don't miss out on the goodies. By the way, although the yeast may give you a little gas, it is high in B vitamins so there are health benefit as well (except for the guy down wind of you). It's funny about wheat bier though, it's a beer people just love or hate. A friend of mine's wife likens heffeweizen to a diabetic's urine sample which I really don't understand because I just love the stuff. Oh well, each to their own, that just leaves more for me.

[far9410]

diabetics urine at 12c with a shot of co2

[Shaun21]

I have a quick question about my wheat beer, I have it in the bottle now and decided to open one for a taste, well tbh I couldn't keep my hands off it so it's just an excuse. Opened the bottle and all the bubbles started bringing the sediment up from the bottom, is this normal? This is my first wheat beer so I don't have a clue.

Thanks guys.

[dave-o]

Yeah that's not a problem. You want to pour the yeast out opne way or another anyway.