Compact 2 vessel system

[Rad]

TLDR; It's (not) a "please help me build my own Grainfather" thread

Hi Everyone,

I looked in to getting one of the single vessel systems like BM or GF. They still need sparge water source so not really single vessel. I believe there's nothing wrong in knocking off someone's idea IFF you can make it better . I've seen that many people here created or are working on similar systems of their own.

I want my system to be all electric and capable of doing big beers and double batches of normal ones, and stack inside each other for storage. I think I have the basic concept for my 2 vessel system down:

1. 80L thermos pot as mash tun/boil kettle
2. 50L pot turned into grain pipe
3. 33L pot/tea urn as HLT
4. PID temp control (maybe better if I don't blow my budget on mistakes)
5. Pump

I don't have access to a tig so I'd like to use mostly premade parts. I'm not shy of DIY though. I'm still short on many details so I'm holding off the shopping spree. I don't want to ask the questions all at once because it's hard to get all the answers and it's awkward to ask the same questions again.

Let's start with the boil kettle then:

1. Are thermos pots suitable for boiling in? Does the insulation stand up to prolonged boil?
2. How thick is the metal? How strong are the walls? Would they hold a wet grain pipe resting on top (possibly 50kg)? Bear in mind that the walls will be weakened by various holes.
3. I'm going to use two 3kw LWD elements and cheapo 40A SSR. Would it be better to have a spark install a 32A circuit and socket and run them through one SSR or use 2 SSR and plug them in 13A sockets?
4. What would be the best way of filtering out trub? Whirlpooling with 2 elements may not be very effective. Dead space might be an issue to.

[themadhippy]

3. I'm going to use two 3kw LWD elements and cheapo 40A SSR. Would it be better to have a spark install a 32A circuit and socket and run them through one SSR or use 2 SSR and plug them in 13A sockets?

either or,although if you go for a 32A supply you'll still need to put some sort of protection in for each of the element circuits,if you go for 2- 13A on no account common them together at any point apart from the low voltage control side

[Rad]

Thanks for the reply. I'll admit the control box is the element I've put the least amount of though into. It might be good to get the electric brewery book and get more educated on the subject.

Does anyone have an opinion if a thermos pot is a good base for this project?

[themadhippy]

It might be good to get the electric brewery book and get more educated on the subject

it may confuse you more as american electrickery is slightly diffrent to ours

[Rad]

Ohms law is still the same. Less volts, more amps, same watts, occasionally a weird socket . As long it explains why the things are connected in a certain way, it'll be helpful.

[UpTheToon]

It might be good to get the electric brewery book and get more educated on the subject

it may confuse you more as american electrickery is slightly diffrent to ours

There's a 240V sticky in their forum but its quite a project to get your head around if you are new to that sort of thing. I'm just doing a much scaled-down controller myself.

[Aleman]

I have an 80L thermopot that I'm going to convert to an 80L BIAB system.

I also have a 4 Vessel 20L electric system build from Thermopots and they work well as boilers and HLT's

From my experience with them you will only need the one element . . . One 3KW element is way to much on my 34L thermopot boiler. I use a Phase Angle Controller to down rate it . . . A Burst Fire Rectifier does the same thing with less EFI.

And a Braumeister does not require a sparge I've used mine both ways now, sparging and full volume . . .full volume is the way to go.

[themadhippy]

Ohms law is still the same. Less volts, more amps, same watts

biggest diffrence is the uk single phase voltage is 230v (yea its 240v really but the eu insist we use 230v to harmonise with everybody else),in the states its 110V ,for them to get 220v they use 2 phases,meaning lots of double pole switching to safely isolate stuff,also with half the current the cabling, switches etc can be smaller

[Rad]

@UpTheToon: You mean this thread?

You learn something new every day. I didn't know Americans have 2 live wires. [edit] doh.. it was designed for 2 phases

@themadhippy: When you mentioned protecting the elements did you mean sticking a 16a fuse in one of these before each element?

@Aleman: Looks like we have the same idea. Are going to use a bag or build a basket like I plan to do?

My reason for 2 elements was the heat up table on Angel Homebrew. Just found some other calculators that suggest it'd be about 30 minutes from mash out to boil so one element should be fine.

[themadhippy]

When you mentioned protecting the elements did you mean sticking a 16a fuse in one of these before each element?

mmm not realy,if your going to be putting the control gear in an enclosure use an mcb, http://cpc.farnell.com/1/1/56307-pro-el ... e-16a.html

[Aleman]

My plan will be to use a bag. The heat up time is the thing that sort of concerns me. I know that when it's boiling, one element will be 'to powerful'. Once you lift the bag, and allow it to drain, you just switch on the element, and the time it takes to drain comes off the heat up time. . . . same as with the Braumeister

[Rad]

Maybe a portable immersion heater would help? Take it out few degrees below strike temp and let the main element do the rest. I don't know how long I'd take the pid to readjust though.

[UpTheToon]

@UpTheToon: You mean this thread?

Yep.

The is my current draft of my wiring diagram. Not checked out by an electrician, no guarantees etc etc.

I've got a relay in front of the main power in and the (single) element.



I'm using din rail components, here's where I'm at so far...

[Rad]

Again these are american 2 phase designs but may come in handy:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=382286

[Aleman]

If you do decide to go for two elements, and a single 32A feed, then take a look at the Neutrick PowerCON connectors. I've linked to the 32A range, but they also do a 20A range . . . they are much smaller and neater than Commando connectors, although that does come at a price.

Of course you would only need one 32A plug and Socket for power coming in, and then you could use the 20A Range for power going out to the elements.