Graham Wheeler’s book and extract recipes.

[NeilE1970]

Being a fairly new brewer this might be a daft question but you don’t learn if you don’t ask.
In Graham’s book, let’s go with the third edition - illustrated but it really doesn’t matter because it relates to them all….there are a number of beer recipes that don’t include weights for extract versions.
Is there a reason behind this or can the ones that don’t have extract be simply converted by multiplying the main grain weight by whatever factor to achieve an extract weight.
Eg page 143, Black Sheep Best Bitter does not have any extract weights. It uses pale malt grain.
So , going with a random recipe that does have extract weights and also uses pale malt..
Page 149 Burton Bridge - Bridge Bitter
23 litres for mash shows 3730g of Pale Malt with a corresponding liquid extract weight of 2780.
If I divide 2780 by 3730 I get a conversion factor of 0.769
So now if I go back to the Black sheep recipe and multiply it’s 23 litre Pale Malt grain weight of 3340 x 0.769 I get 2569.9..call it 2570g
Would this weight of 2570g of liquid extract work. Using the same method for dry extract. With my limited knowledge I’m not seeing a reason why not…and if not why wouldn’t it be included in the book already.

Hope that makes sense.
Looking forward to hearing your views

Many thanks
Neil

[Trefoyl]

The most important parts of a recipe are percentages (fermentables and hops) and characteristics like IBU, OG, EBC etc. because everyone has a different mash efficiency. Recipes assume 75% but my efficiency is about 85% and most brewers on JBK achieve much higher. Extract is a known and reliable quantity so it’s easy to weigh out as much as you need. Dried is more concentrated than liquid.

[NeilE1970]

Thanks for replying Trefoyl but I’m not sure if you’ve understood what I was asking.
Forgetting the maths for a while …the crux of the matter is this.
In the book many recipes have extract as an option but also many don’t have extract options. Is there a reason that certain recipes don’t have an extract option. If there is a reason , what is the most probable reason. If there is no possible reason then why were extract options not put in.
I hope that clarifies the question.

Cheers

[NeilE1970]

Thanks for replying Trefoyl but I’m not sure if you’ve understood what I was asking.
Forgetting the maths for a while …the crux of the matter is this.
In the book many recipes have extract as an option but also many don’t have extract options. Is there a reason that certain recipes don’t have an extract option. If there is a reason , what is the most probable reason. If there is no possible reason then why were extract options not put in.
I hope that clarifies the question.

Cheers

[NeilE1970]

Thanks for replying Trefoyl but I’m not sure if you’ve understood what I was asking.
Forgetting the maths for a while …the crux of the matter is this.
In the book many recipes have extract as an option but also many don’t have extract options. Is there a reason that certain recipes don’t have an extract option. If there is a reason , what is the most probable reason. If there is no possible reason then why we’re extract options not put in.
I hope that clarifies the question.

Cheers

[NeilE1970]

Sorry not sure what happened there, I tried to correct the we’re to were
More tea needed methinks

[soupdragon]

The difference is that the black sheep best bitter recipe has an addition of torrefied wheat which needs to be included in a mash to extract the sugars and at the time of writing was unlikely to be available in extract form. Now however I'm sure it is from one or more of the online retailers.
Your math seems about right to me. I'll have a quick Google to see if torrefied extract is available

Cheers Tom

[soupdragon]

Wheat malt extract is readily available from several places but unfortunately I can't locate one selling a ready converted extract of torrefied wheat.
It's main use if for mouth feel and head retention so you could simply leave it out if it's only a small inclusion

Cheers Tom

[NeilE1970]

Hi Tom, thanks for that.
I don’t have the book with me at the moment to check any other recipes. The black sheep was just an example for a general question..But this could be a reason why others don’t have extract versions.
Does torrified wheat have a similar effect as steeping flaked oats. Or are they two different animals. Can torrified wheat be steeped in 68c water or does it need to be mashed.
I don’t mash grain but I do steep which I suppose is similar???

[NeilE1970]

A quick on in the world wide library says torrified wheat can’t be steeped and must be mashed.

[NeilE1970]

I think I need to read up on mash chemistry.

[soupdragon]

Torrefied wheat needs to be mashed along with something like pale malt as it doesn't have the enzymes to convert itself if mashed on it's own.
Not sure about the head retention properties of flaked oats but it's certainly used for mouth feel (body).

Cheers Tom

[NeilE1970]

That’s the reason Tom! I just looked at some of the others that don’t have extract versions and they have other only mashable ingredients, like torrified wheat. Maize etc.
So since I can get diastatic malt powder here can this be used to make a mini mash.
If so how much per litre would I need? Would it be a general answer of say 15g per litre. Or do the enzymes reproduce during mashing?
Sorry for possibly daft questions. At least I’m learning that’s the main thing.

[NeilE1970]

That’s the reason Tom! I just looked at some of the others that don’t have extract versions and they have other only mashable ingredients, like torrified wheat. Maize etc.
So since I can get diastatic malt powder here can this be used to make a mini mash.
If so how much per litre would I need? Would it be a general answer of say 15g per litre. Or do the enzymes reproduce during mashing?
Sorry for possibly daft questions. At least I’m learning that’s the main thing.

Ok to answer my own question and since I never took biology at o level. Enzymes are not living and do not reproduce…they basically just a catalyst.
So I would need to add a specific amount to a specific amount. I just need to generalize that.

[Trefoyl]

You need to do a mini mash to convert some adjuncts liked flaked barley. I’ve never done that because you may as well start doing all grain, but might be an option before diving in.