Odd taste to my ale

[dba27]

Hi All

I have made quite a few AG brews latley and some of them have an odd almost TCP background flavour. I am aware that infection can cause this but I am also wondering if my brewing technique could be to blame as this seems happens quite often. I usually steralise all my equipment even before the boil stage, I have since read that there is no need to do this, just steralise post boil, could residue steralising solution (Milton) be to blame for the TCP taste? I have never treated my brewing liquor but now have a water treatment report and I have an HC03 level 0f 138ppm minimum 189 ppm average and a maximum of 290 ppm. I have invested in some CRS, Epsom salts, Gypsum and Calcium Chloride flakes and will use it in my next brew as directed by the water treatment calculator on a previous posting. Could lack of water treatment be to blame?
I usually use SO4 yeast but am going to try US-05 as I also want to increase hop flavours in my beer. Could yeast type be to blame.
Finally I have invested in a couterflow wort chiller in order to cool the wort ASAP and pitch the yeast ASAP.

I know there are a lot of possible reasons here but am wondering if anyone has been in the same situation and have resolved this problem and improved the flavour of there ale.

Thanks for reading , and I look forward to your reply

[OldSpeckledBadger]

The TCP taste is most likely from chlorine. Try adding a crushed Campden tablet to your water. You also need to be careful with post-sanitisation rinsing to ensure all chlorine residues have been removed. You can adopt a belts-and-braces approach if you like by crushing a couple of Campden tablets into about a gallon of water and using that as a final rinse solution to get rid of any traces of chlorine. Personally I just use use my nose and keep rinsing until the smell of chlorine has completely gone.

[prolix]

there are two main reasons for TCP taste Chlorine, and as you use milton to stanitise and it is designed to stick to surfaces I would opt for that answer. Use thin cheap own brand unscented bleech it rinses off better or a no rinse sanitiser.

The other reason could be infection, with that high a HCO3 content you could be getting a chalky white build up in your fermenter that can harbour lots of nasties, I lost a brew to phenol taste that I had to put down to infection. I use citric acid and a green scrubby to clean it off of mine.

[dba27]

Thanks for your replys, some good advice to mull over.

Regards

[beermonsta]

I have a similar problem too..see my post...
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=27727
My thanks too for the advice here - I will add it to my list of improvements.
DBA27 - I'd be interested in finding out what things we have in common when brewing to try to isolate if there is one factor that could be causing the off taste. I noticed you also used SO4 - like I do, but I clean with VWP (chlorine based).
My plan is to try to use Asda Smartprice water as per Parvas suggestion in my other post and I have purcashed a different yeast (brewlabs yorkshire slant - which I'm going to make a starter from).
How chlorinated is your water? - here in the NorthWest mine is like drinking bleach at times! - I'm also in the future going to try upping the campden tablets and using OldSpeckledBadger's suggestion for a 'belt and braces' approach for rinsing
What do you ferment in? I use the usual plastic barels and occasionally a glass carboy all air-locked. I also use a fish tank heater set to 21'C (I'm thinking of lowering the temperature a wee bit)
looking forward to hearing from you.

[dba27]

Hi Beermonsta

Me to, would be interested in the comparisons between our brewing technique seeing as we both seem to have the same problem.
I have a Thorn Electrim bin boiler and use standard plastic fermenting vessel. I have, like yourself, used S04 yeast up to now but am going to try US-05 for two reasons one is because of the phenol taste and secondly I want to get more hop flavour in my beer and I have read on other posts that I should try US-05. By the way I read your post and was not aware that S04 can impart a phenol taste.
I am not sure what my Chlorine level is I do have a water analysis breakdown for my supply, will have a look and see if it is listed but my water does not naturaly smell of chlorine. If it helps my Carbonate level HC03 is 189ppm (average).
I have never treated my water but as I am more experienced with the brewing process now, I will start treating my water with Brupacks CRS and other salts. I have read through this post regarding water treatment viewtopic.php?f=2&t=14753 and intend to treat my water from now on.
One thing that might be of interest is that up till now I have been using Milton to sterilise my equipment and speaking to my local homebrew supplier I will try something else to steralise my equipment as Milton could also be the culprit. By the way I usually steralise even before boiling and also usually steralise my boiler (which I wont do now). Do you adopt the same aproach to steralising.
I have never used campden tablets, would be interested to find out more about their use?

Hope this helps in your (our) quest to improve our beer. I bet there is a simple answer out there somewhere. Would be interested to know if you find an answer. I planing a Xmas brew soon so will try and let you know how i get on.

Regards

dba27

[beermonsta]

dba27 - keep in touch - we'll sort this! - 2 heads are better than 1!

I'll let you know if my changes make any difference after the next brew (talk again in say...3 weeks?)
cheers
Ben

[dba27]

Will do Ben.

Regards

Darren

[beermonsta]

Darren, glad to here that you have sorted it! It would seem that things are going good at this end too
The brew (Timothy Taylor Landlord clone) my mate and I made a week ago is tasting superb with no hints of phenols/tcp taste. In fact the real flavours seem to have come out - a lovely biscuity malt taste and fruity smell.
The main thing we worked on was reducing chlorine - so we used asda water for everything - mash liquor, sparge liqour, cleaning and rinsing!!

The only other major difference was I was using my new shiny mast tun, not the plastic coolbox but I can't see this making a great difference to the taste.

I think I was right in thinking my "Northern chlorinated water" was fully to blame. It's interesting to note that when you look at other people with similar problems they tend to be using the same water source - I.e anyone in Lancashire/Manchester/North Staffs.

Next step is to see if I can 'treat' this water sufficiently to make it useable. I understand that 1 campden tablet per 25 litres should do they job but I was doing this before without it making much difference. I might also boil the water first as I know this tooo should drive the chlorine off. I was thinking about using a water filter (Britta-esque) but I don't want to remove any of the good stuff.

I will too wait to see if it all turns out good after a period of maturation.