Crystal Malt - Beginners question

[ashbyp]

Many recipes - particularly from the US, specify different colours of Crystal Malt - in units of Lovibonds.

But from what can find (and certainly from the supplier I have been using) you can't order any particular colour - for example they just specify the usual level is 120EBC but can range from 80-140EBC.

I think 120EBC = 120/2.65 = 45Lovibond.

So here's a recipe for a Vienna Lager. I guess the best I can do is to use 3/4lb of the only crystal available to me?

7 lbs. of Pale LME
1/4 lb. of Crystal 30 Malt
1/4 lbs. of Crystal 80 Malt
1/4 lbs. of Crystal 120 Malt
3 oz of Black Patent Malt (added separately for last 15 minutes of steep)

Is there any mailorder that supplies different colours of Crystal?

[mysterio]

120 EBC is roughly 60L. If you go to hopshopuk.com, they have light, medium and dark crystal malt which correspond (more or less) to the colours of crystal malt you specified in your recipe.

Briess (U.S. maltster) supply the dozens of different grades to the US market, and i'm guessing they spurred the popularity from them over there. You'll rarely find a UK or continental recipes blending different grades of crystal malt. In fact, any kind of crystal malt in a continental lager is quite unusual (apart from Bock beers maybe).

[Barley Water]

I would have to say that you have way, way too much crystal malt in that Vienna lager formulation. Remember that crystal malt does not give you much in the way of fermentable sugars, it will tend to make the beer very sweet, especially in the quantity you propose using. Taste some commercial examples if you can find them (or get some Octoberfest beer as it is a close cousin). You will find that the better examples are pretty dry but at the same time malty.

If you are using extracts, try a mix of pilsner malt extract and Munich malt extract (maybe 50-50 or so). I doubt you will be able to find Vienna malt extract otherwise I would suggest you use that. I would then get a little bit of Carafa to adjust the color (you can steep it I think). Stay away from Black Patent or Chocolate malts for color as they will add a roasty flavor you don't want. Make sure you pitch a GREAT BIG load of yeast and oxigenate like hell so you get good attenuation and make sure you ferment cold (close to 50F).

Anyhow, enjoy the brewing and let us know how things come out.

[steve_flack]

Munich malt extract (maybe 50-50 or so).

I've never seen that in the UK although I know you can get it in the US. Extract brewing isn't that big over here. People seem to either do pre-hopped kits or all-grain.

[ashbyp]

This is John Palmers (admittedly edition 1) Vienna recipe:
http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter19-4.html

[mysterio]

I just checked the latest edition of his book, the extract recipe is broadly similar (although the hopping is changed slightly). The all-grain recipe is completely different, using 2.3kg of base malt, 1.8kg of vienna malt, 113g of Crystal 80L & 113g of de-bittered black malt. He also does a two stage mash, presumably to get a drier finish.

[ashbyp]

Regarding the non-popularity of extract recipes... I'd like to step up to all grain, but I've done a few extract batches and they have been way better than I expected (I remember nicking my Dad's dodgy stuff he did 30 years ago and it was disgusting). I've done a pale ale, an IPA a bitter and they will all very drinkable. I'll do some AG soon - mainly because I want to experiment with all the kit

[Barley Water]

That's interesting, we do extracts or all grain over here. I haven't done an extract brew in years so I tend to look at things from an all grain perspective. I just know that you could brew a pretty nice Vienna lager from 100% Vienna malt. It would probably come out a little light though unless you did a decoction mash.

Most all grain formulations have some German pils, Vienna and maybe some Munich malt plus a little Carafa to increase the color. To me, these types of beer are all about meloidin flavors, not sweetness. I guess you could add some crystal malt if you like a sweeter version but I am betting that if you tasted a really good Vienna (or Octoberfest for that matter) you would notice that they finish dry but malty which in my humble opinion is really nice.

Just to rant a bit, I really try and discourage folks from using prehopped malt extract. Likewise, I tell folks to avoid amber or dark malt extract because frankly, only God knows what the manufacturer put in that stuff to get it either dark, or hoppy. I would opt to adjust color and flavor by adding specialty grains either steeping or doing a mini-mash. You really don't want to try and make a Vienna Lager which has some harsh hop flavor added by your friendly malt extract manufacturer. It's too bad that you guys don't have the selection we enjoy over here, I guess the market is just bigger here so we get more variety. There is a homebrew supply store maybe 15 minutes away from my house and they stock pretty much everything I could imagine in the way of ingredients (except for hops, lately) plus I get a 10% discount, life is good.

[edit1now]

Of course you don't want pre-hopped malt extract - you can't eat it out of the tin with a spoon (well you can but it's a bit yuck, said Tigger).