I'm tempted to do AG

Get advice on making beer from raw ingredients (malt, hops, water and yeast)
Benson_JV

I'm tempted to do AG

Post by Benson_JV » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:57 am

I'm so very wanting to do AG. Finance is again, against me though.

How much would it cost roughly to buy the equipment, all of it. Cheaply though i'd prefer, but not so cheap as to get crappy quality beer out of it :)
Might get the equipment then for the birthday :mrgreen:

Thanks lads.

EDIT: Also if anyone would be as so kind as to list exactly what i need to go from start to finish that would be great.

wetdog

Re: I'm tempted to do AG

Post by wetdog » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:13 am

as always it depends on your needs. Will you want to do 5 or 10 gallon brews, bottles, kegs or cornies, would you be prepared to buy second hand or build some items yourself.
I bought a 10 gallon bucket from Hop & Grape, bought a cool box from Argos and made a manifold for each. Those two items come in at under £100, then there's fermenting vessel(s) at around £7. If you're canny you should be able to get yourself kitted out for around £150 but beware of looking for the rock bottom cheapest options as they often bite you back

Benson_JV

Re: I'm tempted to do AG

Post by Benson_JV » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:18 am

Thanks wetdog!
I'll be wanting to do probally five gallon brews at a time, although i reckon i might get bigger equipment so i can do 10 gallon when i find a recipe i really like.
It'll all be bottled as i find this easiest. I'm definately prepared to buy 2nd hand.

Earth Titan

Re: I'm tempted to do AG

Post by Earth Titan » Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:38 am

I've just stuck my first Ag brew in the FV last night.

Kit cost me £40 in total. Didn't want to spend too much just in case it doesn't work.

Built a mash tun from a cool box (instruction on this forum)
Bought a second hand burco boiler for a tenner

Let you know if tastes any good but it smells right and looks right.... :D

Benson_JV

Re: I'm tempted to do AG

Post by Benson_JV » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:02 pm

That sounds excellent :shock:
If i can get the kit for around 50-60 quid, i can spend about 40 or so on grain and hops and preliminarys :twisted:

Edit to save double post:
http://www.outdoormegastore.co.uk/acata ... l_Box.html something like that perhaps?

Earth Titan

Re: I'm tempted to do AG

Post by Earth Titan » Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:12 pm

Go for the £14 Argos one.
http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/ ... OL+BOX.htm

Instructions on building one here:

http://www.18000feet.com/coolbox/cool_box_mash_tun.htm

I covered mine with a sleeping bag and it lost one degree during a 90 min mash.

Benson_JV

Re: I'm tempted to do AG

Post by Benson_JV » Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:40 pm

Thanks ET :)

Now i've just got to gather enough money for the mash tun and boiler then.

What sort of volume should the boiler be? Same or so as the mash tun?
Sorry for the amount of questions, i've never really looked into AG before, let alone tried to sort out what i need :twisted:

Earth Titan

Re: I'm tempted to do AG

Post by Earth Titan » Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:53 pm

I've really only just started myself.

If cash is tight, do whatever you can get away with. What determined my brew was the capacity of the boiler I blagged for £10 and then I worked back from there. I have an old Burco Boiler with a maximum capacity of 18 litres - from this I worked out the grain bill (3kg), the mash liquid volume (7.5 liters), the sparging volume (about 15 litres) and the final volume (I planned on 14 litres at 1044 OG but ended up with 15 at 1044 after the boil, losses and adjustment back to 1044).

When I was looking into it, everyone on this forum was extremely helpful and I read the Graham Wheeler book - which covered the techy bits. I scratched my head, ummed and urred and finally went for it.

Took me 7 hours in total (there is a lot of waiting around - 90 minute mash, 90 minute boil) but next time I'll have a wort cooler built which will speed things up a hell of a lot.

Benson_JV

Re: I'm tempted to do AG

Post by Benson_JV » Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:06 pm

Excellent.
All theres now left to do is swing my parents round to my way of thinking. Mum cant stand the smell of kit wort, let alone boiling the stuff :shock:
Thanks for your help guys, im sure'll be back for more :lol:

sparky Paul

Re: I'm tempted to do AG

Post by sparky Paul » Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:36 pm

Benson_JV wrote:Mum cant stand the smell of kit wort, let alone boiling the stuff :shock:
She's in for a real treat! :D

Benson_JV

Re: I'm tempted to do AG

Post by Benson_JV » Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:39 pm

Excellent.
All theres now left to do is swing my parents round to my way of thinking. Mum cant stand the smell of kit wort, let alone boiling the stuff :shock:
Thanks for your help guys, im sure'll be back for more :lol:

Edit (again): i know alot of people use standard kettle elements.
Can these be used with standard 25L FV's?
How many would i need?
Would i need a thermostat to control them?

Thanks!

stevezx7r

Re: I'm tempted to do AG

Post by stevezx7r » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:25 pm

If you already have a fermenter, hydrometer, thermometer, some pvc tubing etc I bet you can get the rest for next to nothing.

Have a google for Freecycle and sign up (it's free) for an account in your local area. Once you've an account, put a wanted ad for home brew equipment in your area and I reckon within a week or two you'll have another fermenter or two which can be converted into a boiler/mash tun :wink:

Next you'll need some old kettles (which work), rip out the elements, remove the safety cut-out (to stop it from switching off), get a hole saw (40mm usually?) and pop two elements in your soon to be boiler/mash tun. Next get a couple of decent pc power cables and pop a 13amp fuse in each of them so they don't keep burning out. Now you have your boiler/mash tun. Just make sure the plastic the fermenter is made from has a "PP" within a triangle (usually on the botton) this states it's made from polypropylene so won't leach any nasty chemicals into your beloved brew once heated :wink:

Now you need some copper pipe to use as a grain filter. This has holes or slits cut into the underside of it and is connected to the tap. So, pop into your local plumbing shop, get a decent (polypropylene or stainless) tap with fittings to attatch to your grain filter - maybe take the whole boiler in so they can do it for you?

While your there, get 10 meters of 10mm copper pipe and carefully bend it around an old demi-john/gas cylinder to make it fit inside your boiler - don't be tempted to try doing this with your hands alone as it WILL kink the pipe - this will be your immersion cooler so needs to be connected to your cold tap (via some hosepipe) and then back to the sink drain.


If you have a keg it would come in very handy on your first outing as you can boil some water in another fermenter (need another element/pc cable for this) then fill the keg as a holding tank. This is then placed above your mash tun and water is drawn off it via gravity to wash the grains of the sugar (if you're going to fly sparge). Then, below the boiler/mash tun you collect your runnings into a spare fementer and move that (once full) back to a work surface to boil for 60 - 90 mins.

So, the most expensive thing you'll need would be your immersion cooler (plus a couple of tap fittings) that should cost about £20. Asda are doing kettles for £3, so I've heard, although I haven't seen/needed them. It might cost around £15 for the grain filter (don't use pellet hops with these as they clog) plus another £5 for the tap.

So, if you can get a couple of fermenters and a keg for nothing your looking at around £50 :lol:

If your not sure on how to use this set up here's how I do it...

Get recipe, fill mash tun/boiler with 3-1 ratio of water to grain, heat water to required temp (usually 72C). Fill spare fermenter (with one element) to 5 gallons ready to heat. Once mash tun/boiler is at required temp add the grains, stir to remove any lumps then cover with tight lid and cover with insualtion (blanket, camping mats etc). Mashing will take 60 to 90 mins depending on your recipe. Once the mash is on, start heating the water held in the other fermenter. That should heat to boiling temp in around 90 mins. Once the mash is done and the other water is boiling I fill a spare plastic keg with the boiling water and put it on top of a breakfast bar stool which is on top of my dishwasher. Now, put the mash tun (grain included :wink: ) below the keg of VERY HOT water. I use a length of hose with a shower head and fly sparge the grain. Collect the "first runnings" into a large jug and carefully pour back into the mash tun then run off slowly into a waiting fermenter below the mash tun. I collect around 6 gallons. I then empty the mash tun of it's grain into a bin bag and give it to my uncle who has chickens :wink: He gives me fresh eggs 8) . Once I've rinsed the mash tun of spent grain I re-fill it with the (wort) runnings so the mash tun now becomes a boiler. Place the boiler onto a decent work surface and bring to the boil for your recipes required amount of time adding hops when required. Once your 15 - 20 mins from the end, put your immersion chiller in to sanitize it plus any whirlflock/copper finings you fancy. At the end of the boil (switch off time) start cooling the wort asap to help it produce it's cold break. Now, don't disturb it once it's all settled and cooled just carefully run it all into your fermenter making sure it splashes quite a bit on the way in. Throw in your yeast and leave somewhere between 18 - 24 C for 10 days then bottle or keg.

The job, as they say, is a good-un :wink:

farmhousekeg

Re: I'm tempted to do AG

Post by farmhousekeg » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:30 pm

Remember to factor in the cheaper production costs of AG compared to kits, against the initial capital outlay. For example your typical kit beer costs you 40 pence per pint by the time you add some sugar or Spraymalt, your typical AG might only cost you 25 pence per pint depending on the exact ingredient list. So thats a saving of 15 pence per pint on every single brew you make, or in other words about £6 per 5 gallon brew. So if you spend £100 on kit, you will have recouped the costs after 17 batches of beer. However the biggest incentive will be the intense warm feeling you'll get from brewing your own from scratch. You can certainly reduce your costs if you are any good at DIY by searching these forums for guidance.

I reduced my costs a bit by using an old FV and making the fabled "DaaB's false bottom mash tun" as featured here:

http://www.18000feet.com/Daabs_False_Bottom/DFB1.htm

I insulated it by attaching an old camping mat and it loses about 1C over 60 minutes. Total cost about £10.

Benson_JV

Re: I'm tempted to do AG

Post by Benson_JV » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:50 pm

Thanks alot guys!

My dads 100% against it, but i think i'll have to gather money from somewhere and get onto this AG Lark :mrgreen:
Thanks again guys!

farmhousekeg

Re: I'm tempted to do AG

Post by farmhousekeg » Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:39 pm

Benson_JV wrote:Thanks alot guys!

My dads 100% against it, but i think i'll have to gather money from somewhere and get onto this AG Lark :mrgreen:
Thanks again guys!
Dunno how old you are Benson but if your anything like my 19 year old you will completely ignore the "old man" and do what the hell you want anyway! :twisted:
:lol:

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