AG Is it expensive for ingredients

[mb]

it's not just about cheap beer though is it? i'd imagine most people brew AG because it's fun: coming up with a recipe, learning about the ingredients, improving your process, seeing how a beer develops over time, joining brewing clubs...it's not just a chore you go through so you can get p'ssed cheaply. as hobbies go 5-6 hours of entertainment for £20 isn't bad and you've made cheap beer at the end of it.

now bottling...that's a chore no matter how you brew.

[vacant]

Startup costs:

My costs going from kits to AG were £50. I bought a H&G 10 Gallon bin (£18) and IC (£27). I made a hop strainer by curling a 200mm x 70mm piece of vivarium stainless steel gauze (£2) and as I'm using the Brew in A Bag method (BIAB) I needed a large net curtain (£2). I already had a cheap kettle, garden hose with various connectors.

Break even:

I agree with others' AG costs - around £12 for 23L including electricity, compared to £20 for a quality 3KG kit which though very drinkable, still can't compare with AG. I break even after 6 brews. Favourite kit is Munton's Midas Touch (3.6KG) £22.

Time:

Start to finish clearing up takes me 6 hours but heating the water, mashing and boiling takes over 4 hours of that and needs very little intervention so I can do other stuff. I brew in a car port, single element attached through an RCD therefore I'm reasonably confident leaving it. I've never had anything approaching a boil over and I haven't removed the safety cut out from the element.

[softlad]

AG is expensive if you use HB shops like my local place. 4kg of pale malt - £11.00 . Thats the price for 8 or 13kg of malt, depending on where you buy it from.

Ive begrudgingly paid it today as I want to get a brew going tomorrow.

The cost of equipment didnt come into my equation, in the same way that I ignored it when kit brewing. Its a hobby, it forces me to unwind for half a day and I get a good pint into the bargain.

[richtangsoo]

Their may not be that much difference in the cost but their is in the quality, you can brew beers as good as or better than any micro brewery, and the variety in flavours is endless.
And surprise surprise my hbs did his best to talk me out of ag brewing to, and i just broke the news to him that iv'e bought a malt grinder resulting in another saving in grain costs, you should have seen his face drop.

[Dennis King]

Gave up working out cost years ago, its my main hobby and I spend what I can afford, end of story. The bottom line is I have good quality real ale on draught at home. What more can a man want

[escapizm]

At the end of the day it’s as lots of people have said, it’s a hobby and if I enjoy it the cost is purely subjective. I also enjoy mountain biking and have paid small fortune on bikes and equipment but that is my passion.

I’m glad to hear that the cost will not be prohibitively expensive and the pride I will eventually enjoy from building my own kit make the brew all the sweeter.

[Chiltern Brewer]

AG is expensive if you use HB shops like my local place. 4kg of pale malt - £11.00 . Thats the price for 8 or 13kg of malt, depending on where you buy it from.

Thingy heck - that's bordering on profiteering - I'd have thought you'd get lynched for prices like that in Yorkshire?

I was at my LHBS today and with this post in the back on my mind I asked (rather cheekily ) whether they were selling a lot of kits off the back of the resurgence of interest in homebrew and was there more profit in this rather than selling malt? Basically the answer was that they aim to sell what the customer wants and not the other way around, also they are getting through a healthy amount of malt at the moment.

I suppose not all HBSs are going to take that attitude and some will just want to concentrate on selling the kits.

BTW vacant, that BIAB link - an interesting update to the old grain bag method.

[softlad]

Needless to say he dosent get much of my business. His shop is busier now and whenever I go in he's selling beer & wine starter kits to people so he's doing very well out of the current financial climate.

[RabMaxwell]

A large part of going all grain brewing for me over the years is designing /making & adapting your equipment rather than just buying premade exspensive & often poorly made stuff.My first buy many years ago when going all grain was a Hop & Grape mash-tun.When it arrived i remember being a bit disapointed it wasn't big enough really to do a 10 gallon batch of any reasonable strength beer.I could have purchased a much larger cool box & easily made my own copper manifold for about a third of the cost.This is the beauty of joining a forum like J'ims with so many experienced people to ask for help.

[YetiBrewer]

Making the beer shouldn't be a chore.

For example, while the grains are having a good soak you easily have an hour or so to do what you want. Again when you are boiling you have another 60 - 90 mins. The cooling of the wort takes approx 30mins so again, another 30mins to do what ever you wish. So you have 2 hours in which you could, walk the dog, go shopping, abit of gardening, making a decent evening meal or even kick back and watch some footy while drinking a sample of your last homebrew.

I think the more organised you are the easier it becomes. Having everything to hand and a good time scale scribbled down sure helps as does an empty house

[BarryNL]

Personally, I think you're looking at it the wrong way. Do you want to go AG to save money or because you enjoy the hobby? If you are simply looking to produce beer as cheaply as possible then stick to kits - any possible savings in AG will never be enough to cover the initial cost of the equipment. If, on the other hand, you want to go AG because you want to produce beers to your taste and to exercise your creativity then the only question is whether you are happy to spend the money to achieve that. Any cost difference between AG and kits (or buying Force-10 at Asda) isn't really important.

[confused]

Alas I got the same attitude at my LHBS when I moved to AG. I can understand their problems, keeping a whole range of largely perishable fresh ingredients in large enough quantities to be cometitive in a small market town shop is not feasible. Tey can't compete with online suppliers with big turnovers. Hence the one small rack of Youns pre packed stuff at vastly inflated prices, much of which ends up in the out of date bin.

I wouldn't class brewing as a chore, but I don't look forward with glee to spending a day in the shed either. I've moved to AG, but it doesn't stop me chucking the odd Woodforde's kit in the fermenter when I need to top up stocks and can't be bothered to go the whole hog. There seems to be an image that you have to be a kit brewer OR an extract brewer OR an AG brewer, utter bollox.

I do enjoy devising my own recipes, and I enjoy drinking the end product, but the bit in the middle I can take or leave. It's something to do when the mother in law visits (she must think I live in the shed, truth is I only ever go there when she visits!).

Re costs then you can no more compare costs for an AG brew with a kit, esecially a cheap, one can type as you could compare prices for a pint of well crafted real ale in your local with a can of tesco value 2% bitter. There different animals, you pays your money and takes your choice.

[Damfoose]

Local HB shop is not to bad price wise, If it was cheeper for me to buy my grain from paul at BB I would but the diffrence is £2 in my LBH favour as I can pick up 25kg of grain for £37.99 its gone up by £10 in the last 3 months..... Paul does the same grain for £28 but ontop is £9.50 delivery well thats a turn up if I also get sundry grains it will be cheeper from Paul from now on. Thing to remember here is that before I buy my grain I check my locals price and Pauls price to see who is cheeper it was my local HBS now its BarleyBottom so my cash is going to go that way.
Nothing against my HBS he is a great guy and can talk the hind legs off a donkey also knows his stuff. Main complaint his shiney stuff is expensive.

But on the flip side my first AG setup came from Aleman for a very reasonable price all plastic but it worked bought a mashtun from my LBH as I did not have the time really to make one. I am now still building a shiney brewery where the boiler keg came from kev the HLT keg came from Aleman ( it is my mission in life to rid him of his redundant kit ) these were free and im very gratefull ..... im still trying to find something to make a mashtun out of may be another keg but im of the mind of a nordic thermobox 50l size ... I cant see myself going to bigger length brews yet I managed to get a march may pump from ebay for £34 including P&P. Various taps tubing and other bits I think have come to £50 .. So yes your looking at around £150 - £200 for a shiney brewery. May I add that Hop & Grape do a perfectly good placky brewery for just over £100 or £170 for the placky brewery with everything ( everyone goes shiney in the end ) 2 reasons for going shiney it looks better and the main reason it is a darn sight easier to look after.

Incidently my general brewing cost for 25 litres is in the region of £15 per brew thats everything grain , gas and yeasties. On the flip side I could still be brewing the 2 can kits I started with at £20 a pop. so 40 kits later ive had the £15 for grain gas and yeast also made up the cost of the brewery with the spair £6 ...... but £20 minus £15 is £5 surley ....... yes it is and the answer is I did not use the yeast in the kit I added safeale-s04 at £1 so kit cost £21..

Pros and cons for AG

Pros ..... the beer tastes much better and its much more fun to make than heating a tin or two bunging in 2 litres of boiling water stiring adding water to make up to 25 litres and pitching yeast.
It is something you can get your other half or mates to give you a hand with not that their is much to actually do except wiegh grains and hops out heat water add water to grain oh the list goes on and on .... Did I say the beer tastes great ? much cheeper pint than a pub or bottle of from the offy not that price is the reason here it is done because it is fun. Brewing takes most of a day but it is a hobby and something that should be enjoyed not enjured.. If brewing is a chore why do it

Cons .. Your AG beer makes pub beer taste rubbish so you wont want to go out that much. Your mates will think the same so you will have friends round more often. all the cleaning up and sanitisation. Deciding what your going to brew next. You may make a bad batch that has to be chucked it happens go back over everything you did and see what went wrong where. You will need most of the day to brew but hey its a hobby so what you dont like it stop it find something else to do.

Me im a new AG brewer I cant see im ever going to stop AG brewing im learning things as I go and enjoying it. Basic components to a fine tasting liquid what more of an excuse do you need to brew...

[Chiltern Brewer]

[escapizm]

"and can talk the hind legs off a donkey "

Mine too must be commensurate with the trade.

Top reply Damfoose.