Hi all,
What are your thoughts on this? I've read that having a small amount of cold break in the fermenter is a good thing, but thinking how breweries chill their wort (with a huge plate chiller - in line) that must mean all the cold break goes into their fermenters? So perhaps not such a bad thing to do after all? I'm thinking of buying a plate chiller, so in this scenario I would be transferring all the cold break to my fermenter too. So wondering if it really matters or what any potential downsides may be...
Rgds, Gaz.
Fermenting with cold break
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mysterio
Re: Fermenting with cold break
Commercial breweries will be filtering through whole hops or using a whirlpool if pellets are used, which will tend to filter out the bulk, but inevitably some will make it into the FV.
It's not something to worry about, generally I like keeping the bulk out too because I think it aids clarity. Yes a small amount is beneficial to yeast health but short of filtering the wort with a 0.5 micron filter, more than enough is going to make it into the FV.
What I like doing is recirculating the wort post boil so the whole hop bed filters the wort, and a clear wort goes into the fermenter. Even when using pellets I like to use a small amount of whole hops to get this effect.
It's not something to worry about, generally I like keeping the bulk out too because I think it aids clarity. Yes a small amount is beneficial to yeast health but short of filtering the wort with a 0.5 micron filter, more than enough is going to make it into the FV.
What I like doing is recirculating the wort post boil so the whole hop bed filters the wort, and a clear wort goes into the fermenter. Even when using pellets I like to use a small amount of whole hops to get this effect.
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HantsGaz
Re: Fermenting with cold break
Hi mysterio,
So do some commercial breweries chill their wort in the boiler then - hence your comment about them being able to filter through the hops? When I visited my local brew pub the brewer there said that they transferred the whole lot of cold break across as the plate chiller was down line from the kettle. He said that the cold break just sits on the bottom of the fermenter.
Rgds, Gaz.
So do some commercial breweries chill their wort in the boiler then - hence your comment about them being able to filter through the hops? When I visited my local brew pub the brewer there said that they transferred the whole lot of cold break across as the plate chiller was down line from the kettle. He said that the cold break just sits on the bottom of the fermenter.
Rgds, Gaz.
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mysterio
Re: Fermenting with cold break
OK well, you've answered your own question then, if that breweries beers are good then theres no problem 
The vast majority of breweries use large plate chillers as far as I know, I would have thought that whole hops provide at least a limited filtering effect on the way to it, even if they're not using a hop-back while will provide the same effect. And no matter how good a job you do, you'll always get a layer of break on the bottom of the FV. Fermenting in glass is a good way to show this, sometimes there can be several inches before it compacts
The vast majority of breweries use large plate chillers as far as I know, I would have thought that whole hops provide at least a limited filtering effect on the way to it, even if they're not using a hop-back while will provide the same effect. And no matter how good a job you do, you'll always get a layer of break on the bottom of the FV. Fermenting in glass is a good way to show this, sometimes there can be several inches before it compacts
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HantsGaz
Re: Fermenting with cold break
I guess so. I was really wondering if breweries 'get away with it' as it's on a larger scale, but I guess everything is proportional.
To simulate this I was thinking of doing my next brew such that I filter from the boiler (through the hops) immediately after the boil into a fermenter - transfer the immersion chiller to the fermenter then cool the wort in the fermenter. And see how the beer turns out. But if others on here ferment with all the cold break then I probably won’t bother to experiment
!
Rgds, Gaz.
To simulate this I was thinking of doing my next brew such that I filter from the boiler (through the hops) immediately after the boil into a fermenter - transfer the immersion chiller to the fermenter then cool the wort in the fermenter. And see how the beer turns out. But if others on here ferment with all the cold break then I probably won’t bother to experiment
!Rgds, Gaz.
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mysterio
Re: Fermenting with cold break
Yeah, I did that for my first 10 or so batches, beers turned out fine. I reckon you might get a little chill haze if you were serving cold beer, so I wouldn't recommend it for lagers... but for ales at cellar temps, why not? I'm not sure what the purpose of the experiment would be though.HantsGaz wrote:I guess so. I was really wondering if breweries 'get away with it' as it's on a larger scale, but I guess everything is proportional.
To simulate this I was thinking of doing my next brew such that I filter from the boiler (through the hops) immediately after the boil into a fermenter - transfer the immersion chiller to the fermenter then cool the wort in the fermenter. And see how the beer turns out. But if others on here ferment with all the cold break then I probably won’t bother to experiment
Rgds, Gaz.
Yeah it really is, we can do at home exactly what the big boys are doing (even have access to the same ingredients), with the added luxury that we don't have to skimp on ingredients or rush beer out the door for accounting or economic reasons.but I guess everything is proportional.
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HantsGaz
Re: Fermenting with cold break
Purpose of the experiment would be to see if my beer tasted any different than the norm, didn't think about appearance & chill haze though..... Interesting point.
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adm
Re: Fermenting with cold break
Well...... I normally just let the cold break run through the plate chiller into the FV with the wort and then settle and compact on the bottom. I've not had a problem with this approach yet, and I tend to get crystal clear beers. So I'd say, don't worry about it at all.
I think the only downside is if you intend to reuse the yeast cake afterwards, as you'll have more trub mixed in with the yeast. You can of course get around this by decanting the yeast out of the FV, letting it settle out and then removing the "clean" yeast from the trub.
However - if it does annoy you, then you can always chill in line with a plate chiller or counterflow, but recirculate the wort back into the boiler. Then when it's chilled, give it 20 mins to settle and run off to the FV. This way most of the cold break should stay in the boiler. I've done this a few times, and while it's a bit more fiddly... I have noticed no difference at all to the beer!
I think the only downside is if you intend to reuse the yeast cake afterwards, as you'll have more trub mixed in with the yeast. You can of course get around this by decanting the yeast out of the FV, letting it settle out and then removing the "clean" yeast from the trub.
However - if it does annoy you, then you can always chill in line with a plate chiller or counterflow, but recirculate the wort back into the boiler. Then when it's chilled, give it 20 mins to settle and run off to the FV. This way most of the cold break should stay in the boiler. I've done this a few times, and while it's a bit more fiddly... I have noticed no difference at all to the beer!
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HantsGaz
Re: Fermenting with cold break
Cheers adm – that’s another approach I hadn’t considered, granted it's another step but it obviously works for you. What plate chiller do you use?
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adm
Re: Fermenting with cold break
I use a 30 plate one I bought from BeerBelly.com.au - but you can find the same thing on eBay quite often. They're about £45 or so. Cools like a bugger too......if I leave my wort for 20 minutes or so to settle (and let late hops steep), then it only takes about 5 minutes to run the whole lot through he chiller to <25C.HantsGaz wrote:Cheers adm – that’s another approach I hadn’t considered, granted it's another step but it obviously works for you. What plate chiller do you use?
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Scooby
Re: Fermenting with cold break
Another option is to run the cooled wort from the cfc into a vessel, allow time for the break to settle then run into the FV leaving the break behind. The longer you leave it the more break you'll leave behind but it will be longer before the yeast can get to work so it's a compromise.
When I used a CFC I would do this in a conical as dropping the break was easy, I experimented with various standing times but quite honestly didn't notice any difference in the finished beer, I did however notice a difference in the performance of the yeast in the ones where the standing time was lengthy and had a number of slow or stuck ferments, I can only put this down to the fact that the wort had insufficient nutrients.
When I used a CFC I would do this in a conical as dropping the break was easy, I experimented with various standing times but quite honestly didn't notice any difference in the finished beer, I did however notice a difference in the performance of the yeast in the ones where the standing time was lengthy and had a number of slow or stuck ferments, I can only put this down to the fact that the wort had insufficient nutrients.