Dunkelweizen - suggestions?

[dave-o]

I've got some choc and wheat malt that i need to use up. I figured i'd go for a kind of Dunkelweizen.

Here's the grain bill so far:

2000g Pale Malt
2000g Wheat Malt
200g Choc Malt
300g Crystal

I don't have any Munich or any type of lager malt, so there's not really much room for manouver on the grain. I suppose this won't be a particularly authentic DW, but it should be pretty good, right? Any suggestions?

What i could really do with some input on is the hops. I don't have any true noble hops, but i have a few that are related to them. The options are:

Herkules (15.7)
Glacier (7.2)
Liberty (4.5)
Bravo (13.5)
EKG (5.5)
Bobek (5.2)
Bramling X (5.2)

Any suggestions for hop schedule?

[mysterio]

Yeah should be fine, the authenitic dunkelweizen is pils malt, munich malt, dark wheat malt and carafa. Crystal and choc malt are more 'Americanised' versions but it will still be nice.

Are you using a weiss yeast? This is more important than the hops.

I would go with Liberty or possibly Bobek. Liberty has quite a refreshing lemony flavour, quite nice in a wheat.

[dave-o]

Yep i had been swaying towards those two for flavour/aroma.

I guess the two bittering hops are much of a muchness, and either would suffice, but how much would you use to bitter this kind of beer?

And given that i'll probably go woth the Liberty for flavour/aroma (it needs using up), what amount would you use and when? I've probably got about 70g of it.

[mysterio]

Bittering, I would say no more than 20 IBUs ? Use whatever you like for that.

Flavouring hops, I would keep it low. It's a malty beer. 20g of Liberty at 15 - 10 mins from the end ?

[dave-o]

Sounds good.

I had planned to use some coriander and/or cumin seeds in this too. Would this be recommended?

[mysterio]

Not for a dunkelweizen, no. Spices are more for Belgian wit. But its your beer, put whatever you feel like in there.

[Barley Water]

I am planning to do a Dunkel Weizen just after the new year so it will be ready for a contest in mid March (I want the beer fresh as wheats don't do will with alot of age). I would not let Chocolate malt anywhere near a German wheat beer because it will add roasty flavors which are not wanted. I also don't bother with a late hop addition, I just add a little bittering (and I mean a little, less than 18 IBUs) and I use a German noble variety. If you want to darken the color, use Carafa, it is great stuff and will not add any roast at the level you will be using. I would also consider using Munich malt rather than all pale malt. You don't want roast but you do want toast and Munich malt will give you that. I also have access to dark malted wheat which I am considering for my effort (but I have not made up my mind yet). Additionally, I am considering going with maybe some dark and some light Munich malt just to try and add complexity. I know many formulations have some crystal malt but I am toying with going with zero since that will sweeten the beer up considerably. I also plan to decoct which will add the much loved melonodin flavors and help out with the body and mouthfeel of the beer. I agree with Mysterio, if you want a German Dunkelweizen, no spices, the yeast does all the work in that department.

Anyhow, do your thing and let us know how it comes out. Wheat beers are fun to make because you can get very different flavors depending on the grain bill and how you handle the yeast (and especially how you handle the yeast). Once you get a handle on wheat beer, you might then try messing with some of the fine beer our friends over in Belgium make, again, it's all about the yeast with these styles.

[mysterio]

Definately go with the dark wheat BW, and lots of it. This will make your dunkelweizen stand out from the competition.

I brewed the Brewing Classic Styles dunkelweizen and while it was a very nice beer, it was just nothing like a German dunkelweizen. It's full of dark crystal malt character and it was too sweet and chewy.