Mashing malted wheat and rye - can they self-convert?

[lancsSteve]

Quick question: I'm planning a roggenbier which will have at least half of the grist made up of malted rye and malted wheat.

What do i need to partner this with? Pale malt eg MO or would Munich work?

I know Munich can self-convert but do wheat and rye need the 'spare diastatic capacity' of pale or lager malt or would Munich work?

[edit1now]

If your kit will allow, I would suggest a stepped-temperature or decoction mash to get the most out of the grist. Palmer's table suggest that wheat malt (79%) is only a bit less in yield than pale two-row barley malt (81%), and Munich malt (75%) isn't far off. He has rye malt at 63%, so it must convert, but with a lower yield.

[lancsSteve]

Planning stepped temp and prob putting in a little melanoidin malt to get the decoction flavours too,

Thanks for figures but note that theres no differentiation between diastatic malts and adjuncts that must be mashed alongside a diastatic malt to be converted so original q still stands as Munich has self-convertion ability but none of the spare enzymes to convert adjuncts which you get with pale or lager malts. Only reason for considering Munich is having a sack of it and it's flavour profile still have marris otter I can use but interested in required proportions and excess diastatic capacity rates

[edit1now]

Unless the wheat and rye malts are significantly dark they will be diastatic, though less than pale malt (these are malts not just grain you're talking about?), and you can tell from the table how much. Munich is diastatic. People on JBK have done 100% wheat - try the search.

[lancsSteve]

Thanks for clarifying that - I thought so as they're both listed as base malts but wanted to make sure before choosing Munich over marris otter

[lancsSteve]

Ah ha - have found the info on the 100% wheat grist on the craft brewing association back issues:

March 2002 - Belgium, Thoughts, meanderings and possible heresy, skunking, festivals, Fritz Schoellhorn, sparging a 100% wheat grist.
http://www.craftb rewing.org.uk/bc/bcpdf/BC2002-Mar.pdf

Have found one online supplier for the oat husks mentioned to aid sparging but postage is high so think I'll try my local pet shop

[CJBrew]

Oat Husks can be had from Haith's pet food supplier. I couldn't get them at my local pet shop but you may have had more luck.

I just bought 3kg of Rye Malt from the Brew shop in Stockport -- need a recipe -- rye stout sounds like a good idea

[WishboneBrewery]

Oat Husks can be had from Haith's pet food supplier. I couldn't get them at my local pet shop but you may have had more luck.

I just bought 3kg of Rye Malt from the Brew shop in Stockport -- need a recipe -- rye stout sounds like a good idea

I did a Rye Stout with Roasted and Crystal Rye, but not Pale Rye, tasted bloody good... got described as "The Best Bottled Beer I've ever drunk" by a friend and his wife, and lots favourable reviews from other mates.

Code: Select all

Rye Stout

Fermentable	Colour	lb: oz	Grams	Ratio
Maris Otter	4.25 EBC	7 lbs. 8.0 oz	3400 grams	78.7%
Caramalt	20 EBC	0 lbs. 10.1 oz	285 grams	6.7%
Roasted Barley	1220 EBC	0 lbs. 10.1 oz	285 grams	6.7%
German Roasted Rye Malt	450 EBC	0 lbs. 6.7 oz	190 grams	4.4%
Crystal Rye Malt	150 EBC	0 lbs. 5.4 oz	150 grams	3.5%

Hop Variety	Type	Alpha	Time	lb: oz	grams	Ratio
Liberty	Whole	4.9 %	60 mins	0 lbs. 1.9 oz	55 grams	50%
Liberty	Whole	4.9 %	15 mins	0 lbs. 1.9 oz	55 grams	50%

Final Volume:	23	Litres
Original Gravity:	1.041	
Final Gravity:	1.013	
Alcohol Content:	3.6%	ABV
Total Liquor:	32.6	Litres
Mash Liquor:	10.8	Litres
Mash Efficiency:	75	%
Bitterness:	44	EBU
Colour:	157	EBC

[lancsSteve]

PITA

The hardest and most problematic beer to date - by a MILE. have some pics from it so may do a brewday thread but here's a starter:

BrewPal Recipe:

Brewkowski Roggenbier

Batch size 25 litres
Boil size 31.98 litres
Boil time 60 minutes
Grain weight 6.49 kilograms


Original gravity 1.056
Final gravity 1.014
Alcohol (by volume) 5.5%
Bitterness (IBU) 15
Color (SRM) 15.1°L
Yeast
3 liquid packs
Wyeast
3068 Weihenstephan Weizen

Grains/Extracts/Sugars
6.49 kilograms
Rye
3°L 3 kilograms (46.2%)
Munich (Light)
8°L 2.5 kilograms (38.5%)
Oat Husks
0°L 0.6 kilograms (9.2%)
Rye (Crystal)
60°L 0.25 kilograms (3.9%)
Carafa III
600°L 0.07 kilograms (1.1%)
Melanoidin
20°L 0.07 kilograms (1.1%)

Hops
Perle hops
6.9%, Whole 20 grams


Infusion Mash
100 minutes, 45.30 litres
Strike
Target 45°C
12.98 litres @ 50°C
rest = 20 minutes

Infusion
Target 60°C
5.88 litres@100°C
Rest = 40 minutes

Infusion
Target 70°C
7.19 litres @ 100°C
Rest = 40 minutes

Mashout
Target 78°C
10.46 litres @ 100°C

Sparge
8.79 litres
78°C

Boil
90 minutes, 31.98 litres

Perle hops
10 grams 90 minutes

Perle hops
10 grams 60 minutes

Wort chiller
15 minutes (+45)

EXPERIENCE and OBSERVATIONS:
Run off took aver an hour and a half - came out like a dribble of oil!

SOOOO close to a stuck mash - would double or treble (at least) the oat husks - though lots of them floated.

Would also go for a single infusion next time -my third infusion failed to get it above 65C so took a decoction to get temps up and see if it would help lautering (didn't)

Munich malt seemed a bit dominant as well on first wort tasting - would def use simpler pale malt next time as munich is so flavour-rich. Will see what it's liek once fermented.

Boiler broke mid-boil so had to empty mash tun/boiler and ress that into service.

OTHER STUFF;
Pitched a BIG starter (over a litre) and fermentation went NUTS with overflowing yeast head. Weihenstephan yeast STINKS of bananas!!! Really really really strong banana phenols going on.

Looking forward to trying this out - hoping it'll be an interesting and maltier/spicier take on typical wheat beers.

[coatesg]

Pitched a BIG starter (over a litre) and fermentation went NUTS with overflowing yeast head.

I'd have been surprised if it did anything else - 'tis good yeast, and a lovely one for trying to crawl out of the fermenter to take over the world...

[lancsSteve]

I'd have been surprised if it did anything else - 'tis good yeast, and a lovely one for trying to crawl out of the fermenter to take over the world...

Yu they say to leave a 'full headspace' of a THIRD of the fermenting vessel!!! Can imagine it needs it - now calmed down a little after dropping after 36 hours out of the overflowing vessel and into a new one.

Still smelling grand - though unable to create a proper seal for airlock with the ATC800 heat probe going in but don't relaly mind, shall just wait a wee while - not found any real probs with just leaving fermentation a good while so will leave it and eventually test after at least a week or so...