Proper ale management in pubs....

[quiff]

I have a question for anybody who knows a bit about ale management. On friday evening, having worked up a thirst playing tennis, I popped into a nearby dodgy looking pub for a swift pint. Being on the cusp of ordering the usual crappy, ubiquitous pint of worthingtons smooth (I'm in Hull), I noticed that they had TTL on. Now I've never had a decent pint of TTL on draught but the choice on offer wasn't the most titillating to say the least. So I gave it a whirl.
It was fantastic! Hoppy, fruity, lovely lingering after taste and a luscious mouthfeel that persuaded me to suffer the occasional sarcy remark about my bare legs for another couple of hours
It was such a nice pint that upon leaving work slightly earlier than usual last night, I decided to drive the 20 miles out of my way to sample it again. ERROR!!
Flat, lifeless, thin, the hop flavour was no longer slapping me about the face with a wet fish, the head disappeared after about a quarter of the pint. I'm completely nonplussed as to how it could be so utterly different to friday night??? The colour was the same and it was still bright and clear. It just didn't taste anywhere near the same. I was really very disappointed to say the least. This was how I have experianced draught TTL in the past.
So my question is thus: Does anybody have any ideas what could have happenned to the beer over the weekend? I think it's safe to assume that the friday pints where from a fresh barrel and last nights was probably from the same barrel as there were only a smattering of people in both nights and they were all drinking carling. (gives you an idea of the demographic and the pubs probable approach to real ale)

[Invalid Stout]

You'd normally expect a cask that's been on for over five days to be past its best. That's the vicious circle of real ale in a pub where nobody drinks it -- it doesn't sell, so it's old and in poor condition, so nobody wants to drink it...

[Whorst]

You drank it at its peak. It was probably already on for a couple of days. After the initial stages of oxidation, it can go to hell in a hand
basket rather quickly.

[mysterio]

Yeah it's just one of those things, I only know one pub that does decent TTL and when it's spot on, boy is it good. 75% of the time it's lifeless and slightly oxidised. I recommend next time when you find it in peak condition, drink about 6 or 7 pints and bask in its glory.

It's the same with hoppy homebrews I find, theres about a week's window in the cornie when it's at it's peak. Nothing for it but to drink the whole thing in a sitting.

[quiff]

Thanks for your thoughts guys,
I didn't realise that kegged beer had such a short life.
If I'm playing this friday I might give it another cheeky try. Maybe they put a fresh barrel on for the weekend......

[jubby]

One more point to note; If you are the first to have a pint of any cask beer that evenning (or lunch time) you are drinking the warm lifeless stuff that's been sitting in the pipes for a while. I usually ask what's been pulled if i'm in a quiet pub or early. I think good cellar management would be to sling the first half pint or so pulled that day, but not sure if that's normal.

[quiff]

hmmm interesting point Jubby

[RichParker]

Depends on how far it is to the cellar too. If the lines are short then many pubs won't use a python, pint temperature should just about be cellar temperature.

My vote is for the "it'd been sat in the lines for a few hours" explanation.

If you ever get to York pop into the Blue Bell, some of the best landlord I've ever had (note - I'm a regular )

[Invalid Stout]

I have also heard from two separate people that Landlord is on top form recently, so might be worth keeping an eye out for it in general.

[Benjy Edwards]

Does anyone know if pubs normally keep the beer in the lines day in and day out until the cask is empty? I would think that would cause the lines to get dirty very quickly. I serve homebrewed ale via handpump at home and I disconnect the lines from the cask after each night, pump through water, then cleaner and let lines soak in cleaner until the next time I want some cask ale. Even then the lines get dirty after a few weeks and have to be replaced. Using BLC (beer line cleaner) by the way.

[oxford brewer]

Does anyone know if pubs normally keep the beer in the lines day in and day out until the cask is empty? I would think that would cause the lines to get dirty very quickly. I serve homebrewed ale via handpump at home and I disconnect the lines from the cask after each night, pump through water, then cleaner and let lines soak in cleaner until the next time I want some cask ale. Even then the lines get dirty after a few weeks and have to be replaced. Using BLC (beer line cleaner) by the way.

I think they would lose to much beer/profit margin to clear the lines every night.It would be normal to clean them when the cask is finished!

[Spikesdad]

Hi all

You'd normally expect a cask that's been on for over five days to be past its best.

In my limited experience TTL come not in casks , but in 36g barrells, so that shouldnt be the prob.

But saying that my local serves it, and when theres nothing else i fancy on, i have a TTL, and ive had brill and indifferent... perhaps i should enquire further... a mission... am getting coat on now for further research...

[jon_funk]

Does anyone know if pubs normally keep the beer in the lines day in and day out until the cask is empty? I would think that would cause the lines to get dirty very quickly. I serve homebrewed ale via handpump at home and I disconnect the lines from the cask after each night, pump through water, then cleaner and let lines soak in cleaner until the next time I want some cask ale. Even then the lines get dirty after a few weeks and have to be replaced. Using BLC (beer line cleaner) by the way.

I've been told (by a guy who cleans beer lines for a living) that you must NOT leave any line cleaner in the lines for over 30mins, it eats away at the inside of the lines making them more prone to harbouring nasties, infections , yeast etc.

It is great to take pride over keeping your lines clean, but don't forget most line cleaning solutions are bleach based

All the best,
Jon

[boingy]

I believe it's normal for pubs to clean the lines once a week or thereabouts.
Benji, I'm surprised you are replacing your beer line every few weeks.