ag brew..mash and sparge!

[kay-jay]

hi everyone,

i'm rapidly approaching my first ag brew!
i've been reading up on sparging and mashing and to make sure i understand everything i have a couple of questions for the more experienced brewers out there!

firstly i'm gonna be fly sparging...and from what i can gather this seems to involve a continuous sparge until either the boiler is filled to the required level for the boil (brew length +losses) or the runnings test .990 on the hydro (apparently this is 1.080 after temp correction..is this correct??)

so, lets say that my runnings get down to .990 before i have the required amount of wort for the boil, does this just mean that i have achieved an efficient mash? and that i can just transfer brew liquor from my hlt directly into the boiler until i get the required amount (brew length + dead space loss + evap loss+ hop loss) ???

similarly

if i achieve the amount required in the boiler before the runnings get down to .990 does this imply an inneficient mash?? and therefore there will not be enough fermentable sugars to achieve my target strength??

hope someone can shed some light on this for me??

KJ

[Chard]

ok your further ahead than me but as ive been reading up too this is what i think.

its not 1.080 after temp correction its 1.008 !

you dont want to get lower than this as it can mess about with pH levels and cause you to extract tannins from your grain = bad

dont know about topping up from the HLT i guess you could but id think it would be better to check the OG of your preboil brew and work it out from there.

try not to get too hung up on super efficient mashing as its your first go. im planning on my 1st being a way of finding out my efficiency and going from there.

that said im also planning on batch sparging as fly seems a lot more complicated

[Ray Mason]

Hi kay-jay, I’m not a really experienced brewer but here goes:
If you’re using a cool box as a mash tun I try to keep the level of the mash liquor about 2 to 3 inches above the grist, slowly adding more as the mash tun drains into the boiler. This is how brewlab teaches on their courses, and I usually get about 80 to 85% efficiency on a good day. This depends on many factors (ph etc.) but not least on the speed at which you sparge, in my case I take about an hour sparging with liquor at 78C. I would sparge to collect the final boil length (for me, 6-6.5 gall) and while the wort heats up I take a sample into a hydrometer jar (thingy) and put it into the fridge. When it cools to 20c check the SG, it doesn’t take long to cool down. Remembering that as the wort boils and reduces in volume the SG will increase by about 10 to 15% (taking into consideration the eventual loses of fermentables to the hops). It’s then you can alter, if necessary, the hop rate. As Chard says, many brewers here batch sparge, it’s really your own choice and what suites you. Fly sparging as I described earlier requires that you watch the process continually, something many don’t like to have to do, but being retired it makes little difference to me and it takes me away from the household chores SWMBO has lined up for me to do. Again as Chard says it’s better not to sparge below 1008 or even 1010 but unless you have real problems you shouldn’t oversparge if you just collect your final brewlength + loses. If you find that your SG into the FV is lower than you want with whatever method you use then for future brews increase the amount of grain accordingly, it’s easier than messing about with a system you’re happy with. Hope this helps and I await being shot down in flames by the more experienced brews, get the shotguns out lads. Ray

[kay-jay]

hi,

sorry 1.080 was a typo! i know it should be 1.008.

just to clarify, i am only fly sparging because i'm skint and don't have a mash tun, however i can borrow one but it doesn't have the capacity required for batch sparging, hence the fly sparge method.

as soon as i can afford a mash tun of my own i will adopt the batch method. but untill then it would help if i understood the principles of fly a bit better.

Cheers

KJ

[Chard]

ah so you're rocking the sparge bag method? i seeeee....

dont know anything about it but i see

[Cheshire-cheese]

...so, lets say that my runnings get down to .990 before i have the required amount of wort for the boil, does this just mean that i have achieved an efficient mash?

I wouldn't say so. It's the gravity of all that you have collected once you have your pre-boil volume that gives an indication of your mash efficiency, but I wouldn't worry about that. Just sparge away until you have your pre-boil volume or until the run-off gets below 1.010.
To get the most out of your grain, sparge as gently as you can, finding a method that suits you to sprinkle the sparge water over the grain. Some brewers use an equivalent of a watering can fitted with a rose, some use pipes with holes in, some place metal sheets with holes in on top of the grain. The idea is to prevent channels forming in the grain that will allow the sparge water to pass quickly through without dissolving sugars from the grain.
I sparge on the fly:


HTH

[kay-jay]

hi

that helps immensely...but i may only fly sparge for a couple of brews in a borrowed mashtun. can anyone tell me which method, batch or fly is more efficient? this info will help me make decisions about my own set-up which is currently awaiting a cash injection.

thanks

KJ

[Cheshire-cheese]

I can't say I've tested them side-by-side. My guess (probably wrong) is that fly sparging allows you to sparge until you have all the sugar you can get (but not going bellow the 1.010 level as mentioned before) and then if you have too much wort, you can reduce this down with a rolling boil. As for efficiency, I'd say that was more to do with the mash and, as said above or was it on another thread, mash pH, moisture and temperature will have more of a bearing on efficiency.

[jubby]

Fly sparging is generally considered more efficient. I use pretty much the same procedure as Ray above. Keeping the grain bed in a 'fluid' state, ie maintaining an inch or two of liquor above the grain bed whilst running off into the boiler helps to stop the grain bed cracking (there's probably a better word to describe that) and the wort channeling and lowering efficiency. It also stops the grain bed compacting on the tun manifold causing stuck sparges (although in my opinion a well designed and built manifold gets round this problem).

As far as gravity readings go, there's a temperature correction chart on here somewhere. As you will be aware, the temperature of the wort changes the hydro readings. I keep a laminated copy of a correction chart next to my boiler.

I think it's best not to get too hung up on efficiency. For the amount we brew it's only a few pence worth of grain here or there, so if your efficiency is low, use more grain next time. I have never batch sparged because my mash tun isn't big enough, but i will be having a go soon, when my bigger tun is complete.

[kay-jay]

hi

reckon i'm nearly ready to do my first ag. will be next week tho as i'm waiting for a fermenter to become available. full of stout currently.

just one more question about sparging, i think i'm now gonna be batch sparging so...... when adding batch water to the grain bed do i need to fill a bucket with the required amount and add it all in one go or is it ok to transfer from hlt tap via a hose until the required volume has left the hlt??? or does it not matter as long as i get the water in somehow??

cheers
KJ

[kay-jay]

hi

one more question

do i need to put some kind of gauze or tin foil with holes on top of the grain bed when batch sparging or is that just for fly sparging???

cheers
KJ

[jubby]

hi

reckon i'm nearly ready to do my first ag. will be next week tho as i'm waiting for a fermenter to become available. full of stout currently.

just one more question about sparging, i think i'm now gonna be batch sparging so...... when adding batch water to the grain bed do i need to fill a bucket with the required amount and add it all in one go or is it ok to transfer from hlt tap via a hose until the required volume has left the hlt??? or does it not matter as long as i get the water in somehow??

cheers
KJ

You can just run it out of the HLT with the hose into the mash tun as you said, it doesn't really matter how it gets in there. Open the tap on the mash tun and run the hlt water in slowly and that's fly sparging
You don't need to use the foil for batch sparging.

[kay-jay]

hi,

You can just run it out of the HLT with the hose into the mash tun as you said, it doesn't really matter how it gets in there. Open the tap on the mash tun and run the hlt water in slowly and that's fly sparging
You don't need to use the foil for batch sparging

cheers for that jubby!
should be doing my first ag in a little more than a week.

KJ

[chris_reboot]

I used to use tin foil but don't bother now.
I lob it all in, give it a good stir, let it settle, then run off