Hi Guys,
Anybody that has read my posts knows i'm a hophead and IPA fan. Boosting off of my hop purchase from Sue i've decided to do a real old style Scottish IPA. This is going to be a proper 100 bottle 10 year keeping beer and at the volumes i'm mashing i can give my brewery and my brewing skills a bit of a stretch. Recently i've tripped off down the American style of IPA's and while i've enjoyed the experience and the beers every time i skim through the camra IPA book Roberts recipes are staring back at me and from beyond the grave he's calling me a fanny for not trying hard enough!
SO, with the goal being a huge cool fermented IPA in the classic sense to be enjoyed over the next decade i put together this recipe, i'm bricking it already as its massive. A few questions you guys might be able to help out with.
Any of you guys tried using WLP23 at these sort of starting gravities?WHat sort of starter would i need at this size of batch and strength? Is 65% BHE unrealistic at these grain volumes? I plan to sparge the hell out of it as i won't be going for a 2nd beer out of the grain.
I want to avoid refined sugars and other grains as much as possible as the old recipes didn't use them, Anyone got any input regarding this on barleywines and residual body? I'd really like to keep the grain bill as simple(authentic) as possible but i'm also realistic enough to accept that we now have grains available that weren't around back then and might improve on an old recipe. I have been thinking about sticking a couple of KGS of munich and torrfified or straight wheat malt in to aid body and head retention, what do you all think? I plan on using MO as my main grain, anything else out there lighter i could use? At the end of the day i'm going to have to buy a sack of base malt specifically for this beer so the lighter colour the better. Any other points else please weigh in with them.
Hop Paradigm Shift IPA
Type: All Grain
Date: 05/07/2010
Batch Size: 12.50 gal
Boil Size: 15.05 gal
Boil Time: 120 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00
Ingredients
Amount Item Type % or IBU
22.00 kg Pale Malt (2 Row)
2.00 kg Wheat, Torrified (1.7 SRM)
1.00 kg Munich Malt (9.0 SRM)
16.00 oz Challenger [7.50 %] (90 min)
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (10 min)
1.00 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (10 min)
2.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (5 min)
2.00 oz Fuggles [3.70 %] (5 min)
4.00 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (3 min)
4.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.20 %] (3 min)
7.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.20 %] (1 min)
7.00 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (1 min) Hops
2.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
16.00 oz Oak Chips (Secondary 28.0 days) Misc
3 Pkgs Burton Ale (White Labs #WLP023) Yeast-Ale
Est Original Gravity: 1.103 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.027 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 10.01 %
Bitterness: 142.3 IBU Calories:
Est Color: 9.0 SRM Color:
Mash Profile
SIngle infusion 2 hour mash at 65 degrees
Mash Name: My Mash Total Grain Weight: 25.00 kg
Sparge Water: 21.66 gal
Hop Paradigm Shift IPA
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pantsmachine
Hop Paradigm Shift IPA
Last edited by pantsmachine on Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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196osh
Re: Old School IPA
I wouldn't worry about the body in that beer. I would drop the Munich, you don't need the body, plus it would lower the colour.
You could use have extra light Maris Otter? Brewdog use it for all of their beers base malt I think.
Mr Malty reckons you will need an 8L starter at 3 x packets. I would just brew another beer and pitch on to the yeast cake.
You could use have extra light Maris Otter? Brewdog use it for all of their beers base malt I think.
Mr Malty reckons you will need an 8L starter at 3 x packets. I would just brew another beer and pitch on to the yeast cake.
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pantsmachine
Re: Hop Paradigm Shift IPA
I didn't know there was such a thing as extra light MO i'll go google it for a supplier, excellent this is becoming simpler. Take one 25kg sack of malt, shedload of hops and voila great big beer!
I'd also thought about living with the darker colour and going with a sack of golden promise as i've not brewed with that before.
Efficency is going to play a large part in the final outcome. If i go with the whole sack across a 10 gallon batch (and it seems daft not to) i get a varying estimated abv of between 9.6%ABV@50%BHE and 12.6%ABV@65%BHE. I can see i will have to careful about my boil times and sparge volumes as i go with this brew. Happily i can get it down to a colour of around 7.5SRM if the golden promise is averaging at 5EBC. I've not discounted the extra pale MO but it seems closer to the original recipes to go with the Golden Promise. Cheers for the input 196osh!
Oh aye and i changed the name after i realised that i'm going to get a crop of first gold off my hop bine in the garden. That will do nicely for dry hopping
Hop Paradigm Shift IPA
25.00 kg Golden promise (2.3 SRM) Grain 100.00 %
16.00 oz Challenger [7.50 %] (90 min)
1.00 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (10 min)
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (10 min)
2.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (5 min)
2.00 oz Fuggles [3.70 %] (5 min)
4.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.20 %] (3 min)
4.00 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (3 min)
7.00 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (1 min)
7.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.20 %] (1 min)
2.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
16.00 oz Oak Chips (Secondary 28.0 days) Misc
3 Pkgs Burton Ale (White Labs #WLP023) Yeast-Ale
Est Original Gravity: 1.107 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.028 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 10.43 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.65 %
Bitterness: 143.8 IBU Calories: 43 cal/pint
Est Color: 7.5 SRM
I'd also thought about living with the darker colour and going with a sack of golden promise as i've not brewed with that before.
Efficency is going to play a large part in the final outcome. If i go with the whole sack across a 10 gallon batch (and it seems daft not to) i get a varying estimated abv of between 9.6%ABV@50%BHE and 12.6%ABV@65%BHE. I can see i will have to careful about my boil times and sparge volumes as i go with this brew. Happily i can get it down to a colour of around 7.5SRM if the golden promise is averaging at 5EBC. I've not discounted the extra pale MO but it seems closer to the original recipes to go with the Golden Promise. Cheers for the input 196osh!
Oh aye and i changed the name after i realised that i'm going to get a crop of first gold off my hop bine in the garden. That will do nicely for dry hopping
Hop Paradigm Shift IPA
25.00 kg Golden promise (2.3 SRM) Grain 100.00 %
16.00 oz Challenger [7.50 %] (90 min)
1.00 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (10 min)
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (10 min)
2.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (5 min)
2.00 oz Fuggles [3.70 %] (5 min)
4.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.20 %] (3 min)
4.00 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (3 min)
7.00 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (1 min)
7.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.20 %] (1 min)
2.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
16.00 oz Oak Chips (Secondary 28.0 days) Misc
3 Pkgs Burton Ale (White Labs #WLP023) Yeast-Ale
Est Original Gravity: 1.107 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.028 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 10.43 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 0.65 %
Bitterness: 143.8 IBU Calories: 43 cal/pint
Est Color: 7.5 SRM
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196osh
Re: Hop Paradigm Shift IPA
Having just looked it up. White Labs reckons you will be at the top end of the yeasts tolerance range with your low end estimate. So if you ended up with an OG with the potential for 10% plus that yeast will get nowhere near it.
I think you may be better with another yeast for a beer as gigantic as this.
I think you may be better with another yeast for a beer as gigantic as this.
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befuggled
Re: Hop Paradigm Shift IPA
Hi Pants,
Back in May I did a "traditional" IPA which has similarities to your proposal.
12kg MO, Challenger, Fuggles, Goldings and a bit of WGV, nothing like the number of additions though!
The OG was 1.096, not that far from yours (target was 1.100), FG was 1.020.
Beer Engine reckons that's 10.1% abv.
I used 3 pks of US-05 for 25 litres and it took 17 days at about 21C.
I confess to fining it during June and bottling clear with sugar and T-58.
Back in May I did a "traditional" IPA which has similarities to your proposal.
12kg MO, Challenger, Fuggles, Goldings and a bit of WGV, nothing like the number of additions though!
The OG was 1.096, not that far from yours (target was 1.100), FG was 1.020.
Beer Engine reckons that's 10.1% abv.
I used 3 pks of US-05 for 25 litres and it took 17 days at about 21C.
I confess to fining it during June and bottling clear with sugar and T-58.
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garwatts
Re: Hop Paradigm Shift IPA
And........befuggled wrote:Hi Pants,
Back in May I did a "traditional" IPA which has similarities to your proposal.
12kg MO, Challenger, Fuggles, Goldings and a bit of WGV, nothing like the number of additions though!
The OG was 1.096, not that far from yours (target was 1.100), FG was 1.020.
Beer Engine reckons that's 10.1% abv.
I used 3 pks of US-05 for 25 litres and it took 17 days at about 21C.
I confess to fining it during June and bottling clear with sugar and T-58.
How many have 'disappeared' so far?
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pantsmachine
Re: Hop Paradigm Shift IPA
Thanks for the input guys. I'll kick it off with the WLP023 and if need be i'll finish with US05. I plan on splitting my WLP23 into 5 decent sized starters so i'm sure there will be an interim pitch of WLP023 if it stalls before resorting to US05,heat and rousing to finish it. Also planning on ramping up temps towards the end to give it every chance of finishing. I'm still playing with the recipe and will be pegging it towards FWH. Plenty tweaking left before the brew. One way or the other the whole sacks going into this brew so i might end up going up to around 15 gallon brew length to keep somewhere in the realms of normality.
I'd also like to how how many of those IPA's the fairies have had. Assume they were on the sauce and thanked you by building a Pico brewery for you. Must have met the cobbler's fairies at some point.
Hop Paradigm Shift IPA
Type: All Grain
Date: 05/07/2010
Batch Size: 14.00 gal
Boil Size: 17.78 gal
Boil Time: 120 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00
Ingredients
Amount Item Type % or IBU
25.00 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (2.3 SRM) Grain 100.00 %
4.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.50 %] (120 min) (First Wort Hop)
4.50 oz Fuggles [3.80 %] (120 min) (First Wort Hop)
7.00 oz Challenger [7.60 %] (120 min)
3.50 oz Northdown [8.50 %] (120 min)
1.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (5 min)
1.50 oz Fuggles [3.70 %] (5 min)
2.00 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (3 min)
2.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.20 %] (3 min)
4.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.20 %] (1 min)
4.00 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (1 min)
2.00 oz Fuggles [3.80 %] (Dry Hop 21 days)
2.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.20 %] (Dry Hop 21 days)
1.00 oz Bramling Cross [6.00 %] (Dry Hop 21 days)
2.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min)
16.00 oz Oak Chips ( 21.0 days)
3 Pkgs Burton Ale (White Labs #WLP023) Yeast-Ale
Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.092 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.024 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 8.88 %
Bitterness: 132.1 IBU
Est Color: 6.8 SRM
I'd also like to how how many of those IPA's the fairies have had. Assume they were on the sauce and thanked you by building a Pico brewery for you. Must have met the cobbler's fairies at some point.
Hop Paradigm Shift IPA
Type: All Grain
Date: 05/07/2010
Batch Size: 14.00 gal
Boil Size: 17.78 gal
Boil Time: 120 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00
Ingredients
Amount Item Type % or IBU
25.00 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (2.3 SRM) Grain 100.00 %
4.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.50 %] (120 min) (First Wort Hop)
4.50 oz Fuggles [3.80 %] (120 min) (First Wort Hop)
7.00 oz Challenger [7.60 %] (120 min)
3.50 oz Northdown [8.50 %] (120 min)
1.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (5 min)
1.50 oz Fuggles [3.70 %] (5 min)
2.00 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (3 min)
2.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.20 %] (3 min)
4.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.20 %] (1 min)
4.00 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] (1 min)
2.00 oz Fuggles [3.80 %] (Dry Hop 21 days)
2.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.20 %] (Dry Hop 21 days)
1.00 oz Bramling Cross [6.00 %] (Dry Hop 21 days)
2.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min)
16.00 oz Oak Chips ( 21.0 days)
3 Pkgs Burton Ale (White Labs #WLP023) Yeast-Ale
Beer Profile
Est Original Gravity: 1.092 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.024 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 8.88 %
Bitterness: 132.1 IBU
Est Color: 6.8 SRM
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befuggled
Re: Hop Paradigm Shift IPA
P1ss taking gits.
Unlike Pant's intended brew, mine did not use half of the UK's entire 2009 hop harvest, but it still won't be ready much before xmas.
The little people don't need to get stuck into green beer now that I have got stocks up to a respectable level and had been practising on the garden wellies before turning their hands to the Phemto. They are now running it themselves and must be supplying the pixies and elves which I often see on the patio after extensive quality assurance.
Unlike Pant's intended brew, mine did not use half of the UK's entire 2009 hop harvest, but it still won't be ready much before xmas.
The little people don't need to get stuck into green beer now that I have got stocks up to a respectable level and had been practising on the garden wellies before turning their hands to the Phemto. They are now running it themselves and must be supplying the pixies and elves which I often see on the patio after extensive quality assurance.
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garwatts
Re: Hop Paradigm Shift IPA
Oh that's all OK then. Just as long as the pink elephants don't come along and start squashing them........ 
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pantsmachine
Re: Hop Paradigm Shift IPA
Finally going to brew this tomorrow. The 2nd gen US-05 yeast is already being boosted on a honey/sterilised water solution.
Hop Paradigm Shift IPA
Type: All Grain Scottish IPA
Date: 04/10/2010
Batch Size: 11.00 gal
Brewer: Me
Boil Size: 13.97 gal
Boil Time: 120 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00
17.00 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (2.0 SRM)
4.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.50 %] (120 min) (First Wort Hop)
4.50 oz Fuggles [3.80 %] (120 min) (First Wort Hop)
3.50 oz Northdown [8.50 %] (120 min) (First Wort Hop)
7.00 oz Challenger [7.60 %] (120 min) (First Wort Hop)
1.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.50 %] (5 min)
1.50 oz Fuggles [3.80 %] (5 min)
2.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.50 %] (3 min)
2.00 oz Fuggles [3.80 %] (3 min)
4.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.50 %] (60 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep)
4.00 oz Fuggles [3.80 %] (60 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep)
1.00 oz Bramling Cross [6.00 %] (Dry Hop 14 to 21 days)
2.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.50 %] (Dry Hop 14 to 21 days)
2.00 oz Fuggles [3.80 %] (Dry Hop 14 to 21 days)
16.00 oz Whisky barrel Oak Chips (Secondary 14 to 21 days)
2.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min)
60.00 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 120 min)
Liquid US-05 Yeast-Ale
Est Original Gravity: 1.086 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.024 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 8.04 %
Bitterness: 199.3 IBU
Est Color: 5.6 SRM
Mash
2.1 ltr per kilo grain
Run in 36 ltrs at 81 degrees, will settle at 69 degrees
Sparge 46 ltrs at 85 degrees
Hop Paradigm Shift IPA
Type: All Grain Scottish IPA
Date: 04/10/2010
Batch Size: 11.00 gal
Brewer: Me
Boil Size: 13.97 gal
Boil Time: 120 min
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00
17.00 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (2.0 SRM)
4.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.50 %] (120 min) (First Wort Hop)
4.50 oz Fuggles [3.80 %] (120 min) (First Wort Hop)
3.50 oz Northdown [8.50 %] (120 min) (First Wort Hop)
7.00 oz Challenger [7.60 %] (120 min) (First Wort Hop)
1.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.50 %] (5 min)
1.50 oz Fuggles [3.80 %] (5 min)
2.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.50 %] (3 min)
2.00 oz Fuggles [3.80 %] (3 min)
4.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.50 %] (60 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep)
4.00 oz Fuggles [3.80 %] (60 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep)
1.00 oz Bramling Cross [6.00 %] (Dry Hop 14 to 21 days)
2.00 oz Goldings, East Kent [4.50 %] (Dry Hop 14 to 21 days)
2.00 oz Fuggles [3.80 %] (Dry Hop 14 to 21 days)
16.00 oz Whisky barrel Oak Chips (Secondary 14 to 21 days)
2.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min)
60.00 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 120 min)
Liquid US-05 Yeast-Ale
Est Original Gravity: 1.086 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.024 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 8.04 %
Bitterness: 199.3 IBU
Est Color: 5.6 SRM
Mash
2.1 ltr per kilo grain
Run in 36 ltrs at 81 degrees, will settle at 69 degrees
Sparge 46 ltrs at 85 degrees
Last edited by pantsmachine on Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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leedsbrew
Re: Hop Paradigm Shift IPA
+1 looking forward to seeing this one Pantsalfie09 wrote:post some pics will be intresting
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pantsmachine
Re: Hop Paradigm Shift IPA
Will do, all going to plan at the moment and as a bonus listening to Bowie doing Station to Station. Top brewing tune! Days like this the world is spinning correctly for me.
Days like this the world is spinning correctly for me.-
Manx Guy
Re: Hop Paradigm Shift IPA
Nice one!pantsmachine wrote:Will do, all going to plan at the moment and as a bonus listening to Bowie doing Station to Station. Top brewing tune!
Look forward to seeing/hearing about this brewday...
BTW how is the MidAtlantic IPA you did drinking?
Am I right in thinking that had BX and Northdown in it (how many kilos per gallon?
)?Do you have a link to the brewday ( Iknow I'm a cheeky get!) ?
Cheers!
Guy
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pantsmachine