Most Versatile Grain?

[Wolfy]

If you (only) like real ale and (only) brew from BYOBA you can't go wrong with copious quantities of Marris Otter (or similar quality pale malt), a quantity of Crystal, and smaller amounts of Chocolate/Wheat/Black malt, that's virtually all that makes nearly every recipe.

However, it's my personal feeling that (due to CAMRA and not necessarily the author) the book only presents recipes for a subset of British beer, and an even smaller subset of 'good' beer from all over the globe, so it would be a shame - in my mind - if you only limited yourself to brewing those, hence the additions of Pils, Vienna, Munich, Wheat and other malt in my list.

Having said that, there is only one rule to Home Brewing as far as I'm concerned, brew what you like.

[Invalid Stout]

However, it's my personal feeling that (due to CAMRA and not necessarily the author) the book only presents recipes for a subset of British beer

what's CAMRA got to do with it?

[raiderman]

I like adding wheat malt to pale ales, replacing up to 1kg, Munich and vienna malts I use in a similar way to give a subtle change of flavour. The original GW book is pretty old now and some of this stuff wasn't around easily then and his how to brew like book is designed to copy traditional recipes which never included these things in the first place. Books are great for getting started and knowing what goes into a type of brew but the fun of homebrew is making exactly what you like These kinda malts don't increase the range of beer you can make, but you can be individual and brew stuff you can't find in the pub, which for me is what its all about and never brew the same beer twice. Its pretty easy to take a recipe and substitute malt for malt, or theres a smashing little calculator at practical brewing which lets you design your own recipes and makes messing about with different grain and hop mixes simple.

[Wolfy]

what's CAMRA got to do with it?

I was of the impression that the only recipes that made it into the book are those that conform to CAMRA's definition of 'real ale', and as a result the book does not contain any number of famous/historical British Ale recipes and instead has a number from new, smaller or obscure breweries.

...These kinda malts don't increase the range of beer you can make, but you can be individual and brew stuff you can't find in the pub, which for me is what its all about and never brew the same beer twice.

It's even worse when virtually every pub only serves the same identical generic lager made by only one mega-brewery, at least with Home Brew you can explore styles and variety to discover that not all beer is generic tasteless and bland.

[TheMumbler]

However, it's my personal feeling that (due to CAMRA and not necessarily the author) the book only presents recipes for a subset of British beer

what's CAMRA got to do with it?

They are the publisher, and certainly had some impact on the book according to the author

...They took the piss again with the latest recipe book. They altered, re-wrote and compressed lots of it off their own back, and without my knowledge...

snipped from this thread

Obviously, I have no idea which bits were altered. The recipe balance could as easily reflect the author's biases as those of CAMRA (or a combination of both). I find it a useful reference either way.

[danbrew]

Gents,

I like Grahams book, but I want to broaden my horizons. Moving on a little, if I can substitute Munich, Vienna and Wheat malts for subtle changes then fine... I appreciate the responses. But is/ are there similar grains to Crystal which (whoever you read) seems quite common in british beers... What's the Belgian or German version of Crystal...? Or for any other country for that matter?

[Aleman]

German Version of Crystal - Carapils, Then there is Carahell, and CaraRed . . . Carastan (??) , CaraAmber, CaraMunch, CaraAroma

Belgian - Special B

I got that list from The Brupaks Guide to Grains

Personally I now tend to use Carapils and Caramalt instead of the darker crystal malts as I find the flavour less pronounced and get the dark character from chocolate/ black malts . . . . The qty you need to use is very low . . . no more than 50g in a 5 gallon batch so there is no roast flavour contribution.

[Invalid Stout]

what's CAMRA got to do with it?

I was of the impression that the only recipes that made it into the book are those that conform to CAMRA's definition of 'real ale', and as a result the book does not contain any number of famous/historical British Ale recipes and instead has a number from new, smaller or obscure breweries.

But real ale is a conditioning and dispense method and doesn't say anything at all about the recipe.

Which famous/historical beers do you think are missing?

[lancsSteve]

If you can get this ast a reasonable prce (and Amazon is currently good for that) I'd recommend looking at:

Brew Classic European Beers at Home (Paperback)
by Roger Protz (Author), Graham Wheeler (Author)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Brew-Classic-Eu ... 1852491175

for some good recipes. The ingredients listed reflect its age and grain availability (for german beers with chocolate listed read carafa etc. but it's got good simple sections on techniques and a good range of inspiring recipes that will make you want to keep wheat and munich in a lot... OR go through phases - (I ordered a sack of munich, did lots of munichy beers like a bock and almost OD's on munich!).

Then start finding out just how different the yeast makes it (which the book is really not good on) - a 50/50 wheat/pale beer can become an alt or a weissen depending on yeast and hopping...

[Wolfy]

But real ale is a conditioning and dispense method and doesn't say anything at all about the recipe.

Which famous/historical beers do you think are missing?

I do realise how real ale is defined, and I acknowledge that any recipe book will be limited in the number of recipes that can be published, I also expect there may be specific reasons why some recipes cannot be included.
Below I have listed what I would call famous/historical beers that were not included in the book, and I'd suggest that in some cases the reason for the omission was not due to recipe availability.

Morland Old Speckled Hen, Harviestoun Bitter & Twisted, Tetley's Bitter, Wychwood Wychcraft & Hobgoblin, Hall & Woodhouse Fursty Ferret & Tanglefoot, Mackeson Stout, Shepherd Neame Bishop's Finger, Kilkenny, Newcastle Brown Ale
Samuel Smith - Nut Brown Ale, Old Brewery Pale Ale, India Ale, Oatmeal Stout, Taddy Porter (etc)
Greene King - Mild, IPA, Abbot Ale, Olde Suffolk Ale (etc)
McEwan's - Heavy, Export, Scotch Ale (etc)

Whatever the reasons, all I was trying to suggest is that the recipes included in BYOBRA are 'only' a subset of all British beer, which in turn is 'only' a smaller-again subset of all the different beer's that can be brewed.
While there is nothing wrong with that - especially if you 'only' enjoy real ale - if the OP limited himself to 'only' the recipes included in the one book, he would be 'missing out' on a huge range of different beers and styles to try, and as a result having grain stocks that include more than just pale and crystal malt is worth considering.

[Parva]

There are other books that have recipes for many that you have listed and I dare say that there are recipes posted online for most. Ultimately, a book of recipes is just that, it lists many beers that you can attempt to emulate but it can never emulate all! I could order a Jamie Oliver recipe book and no doubt produce 101 lovely meals but that's not to say that the Gordon Ramsey recipe book is any better or worse. A recipe book is a recipe book and my experience of recipes in BYOBRA is that they have all been excellent and for someone new to AG brewing they are a very solid base to get some cracking brews with little complication and it has excellent basic instructions for people new to AG brewing.

I also fail to understand why you think all of the recipes are classed as 'Real Ale' or how you classify the real ale standard? Black Sheep Best Bitter and Marstons Pedigree are freely available at many public houses in my region of the UK and the recipes for these too are in the book. Ultimately it's a recipe book and a damned invaluable one to anyone new to AG brewing in my opinion regardless of all of this CAMRA hatred and stuff.

[lancsSteve]

The only recipe books I've seen which really covers ALL aspects of the brew including yeast are Randy Mosher's radical brewing (which is full of errors but errata is on the web) and Jon Alexander's 'A guide to Craft Brewing': http://www.amazon.co.uk/Guide-Craft-Bre ... 1861268998

Many of the other recipe books - GW's in particular - have no info on yeasts at all or downright wrong info (probably related to age e.g. using a 'stnadard ale yeast' to make a wheat beer or belgian...)

BYOBRAH seems reliable - missing some beers (most of which are in classic European beers) and a good starter-to-all-grain but I got BrewPal for iPod/Pad/Phone and got much more into recipe formulation made easy. Recipe books are great and you can see how small changes in percentages of ingredients can make dig differences in beer styles - but the lack of yeast info or guidance makes cloning a lot harder and there's little or no info on recipe formulation - which is a strength of John Palmers 'How to Brew'

[raiderman]

Gents,

I like Grahams book, but I want to broaden my horizons. Moving on a little, if I can substitute Munich, Vienna and Wheat malts for subtle changes then fine... I appreciate the responses. But is/ are there similar grains to Crystal which (whoever you read) seems quite common in british beers... What's the Belgian or German version of Crystal...? Or for any other country for that matter?

To me thats the fun of homebrew, adapting and ending up with something not only that suits your taste but is unique to you. In my case shredded wheat! If you go back to Wheelers original book he has a bitter recipe called Caroline, which is a lovely beer, from memory pale malt and golding - nothing else. I now brew it as Mad Dog and it has wheat malt, munich malt caraplils shredded wheat cascade and willamette - its evolved a long way, but in little stages and its my stock brew now. Go for it. If you think through the changes you want to make and go one step at a time you really can't go wrong