So have I got this right?....

[bigdave]

Seems as AG#1 is potentially only a few weeks away, Im cramming in lots of reading to make sure Ive got the process right in my head. Im completely comfortable with the actual process of mashing and sparging but its the finer details such as liquor quantities and ratios, I'm struggling with.

From what Ive read (from a number of different sources) A good mash will be 3Ltrs per kilo and the sparge liquor will need to be 1.5 times the mash liquor. If that's the case, a 4kilo grain bill will require 12Ltrs to mash and a further 18Ltrs sparge. This without allowing for losses to grain, hops etc will only give 30Ltrs. Surely that's not enough to produce a 25Ltr brew?

Can someone please tell me where I'm going wrong with this as I was starting to think I'd got to grips with things but I clearly haven't!

[dave-o]

I aim for 13l - 20l and that works out perfectly for me. Grain bills are usually ~5kg though.

Amount boiled off and "dead space" are so variable depending on your kit that i believe it;s best to start off in the ballpark area and then adjust as your results come in.

[bigdave]

Its good to know that I'm about there with it all. I guess once I run a test boil and see what my boil losses are like, I'll be able to adjust liquor quantities accordingly.

[Blackjack]

I find that my losses add up to rather more than the usually suggested figures.

I usually have a grain bill of 4.5KG or a bit more in total and use about 12.5lt of mash in water, but get first runnings of only 5 to 6 litres. So approx 1.5 lts per Kg of grain is lost.
I make sure that from batch sparging I collect another 23 to 26 lts. to ensure I have either 28 lts for 60 min. boil or 30lt for a 90 min boil to end up with 23lts into the FV. Hops and the bottom of the Burco I reckon swallow about 1lt. so I am losing 6lts in 90 mins or 4 lts per hour in a burco with a 3KW element turned down just a little to keep a very good rolling boil on the go.
So for 23 lts into the FV I am starting with 36 lts of liqour. (I only have a 1/2 size HLT so I can't set a fill up level and use it all)

I suggest first time round....use something like a Young's 10 lt bucket with graduations keep a note of how much you collect and transfer to the boiler and stop sparging when you have about 27 or 28. Measure your FV and mark it at 23lts and if short afterwards top up with a litre or two of cold water.

[crookedeyeboy]

What he said!

I use a ratio of 2.5 - 2.8 for the liquor and 1.5 for absorbtion. Believe me when you do your first brew all the theory will make alot more sense once you are physically doing it. It did for me!

[Spud395]

Maybe I'm over simplifing things, only having done 2 AG's to date.
What I've done is bung all my figures into Graham Wheelers Beer Engine, free download.
Stick in your grainbill and brewlength and it comes up with mash volume figures, sparge water figures.

It also give you expected OG, FG amonst other things.
I find it very helpfull and for me has worked out bang on.

Saying that I made my tun and boiler to have virtually no dead space

[bigdave]

Maybe I'm over simplifing things, only having done 2 AG's to date.
What I've done is bung all my figures into Graham Wheelers Beer Engine, free download.
Stick in your grainbill and brewlength and it comes up with mash volume figures, sparge water figures.

It also give you expected OG, FG amonst other things.
I find it very helpfull and for me has worked out bang on.

Saying that I made my tun and boiler to have virtually no dead space

I would love to do that but unfortunately all of my computers are Apples so beer engine is a no go.

[trucker5774]

Everyone's kit will vary a little. I have an average grain bill or 4.2 kg. I mash in 12L and top up with about 9L and then drain to collect 13L.................obviously I then top up with 13L to drain and collect another 13L. This gives a total of 26L (that's the best I can do with my little tun) I boil this with another 3L of water and top up later in the boil so as to end up with 26L after evaporation. I know that when I drain my boiler I will lose 3L thereby ending up with 23L. As long as you have enough water ready you will be fine. I usually reckon it is better to end up with too little (stronger) wort and be able to dilute in the FV. .......better than ending up with very low gravity wort

[bigdave]

So you're actually mashing 21ltrs then batch sparging a further 13ltrs to collect a total of 26?....

Ok, so IF Ive been paying attention,..... it varies slightly for everyone and their equipment but generally speaking the loss to grain is about 1.5ltr per kilo. The loss to evaporation and to equipment varies and can only be determined by actually doing a boil and seeing whats left.

What about hops? is there a given rule of thumb?

[Brotherton Lad]

Your in the right ball park, Dave. Don't get too worried about the figures being dead on, finishing with a couple of pints more or less of your target is excellent for a first brew. You can always tweak it for the second.
My kit works like this:
Treat 8 gallons of water ( I use most of this but maybe not all)
Grain bill generally of about 4.5kg.
3 gallons into the mash (the grain and dead space soaks up about 1 gallon)
Fly sparge till temperature adjusted hydrometer reads 1007 (about 5 gallons to reach this point)
I now have about 7 gallons wort
90 min boil, hops and dead space in boiler reduce this to about 6 gallons for the FV.
With good efficiency I'll get 8, 7, and 6 gallons as above.
My brew on Wednesday was more like 8, 6.8 and 5.7 gallons at 1048 OG.

[dave-o]

What about hops? is there a given rule of thumb?

You mean how much they soak up? It's 1l per 100g i seem to recall.

[Eric]

Seems as AG#1 is potentially only a few weeks away, Im cramming in lots of reading to make sure Ive got the process right in my head. Im completely comfortable with the actual process of mashing and sparging but its the finer details such as liquor quantities and ratios, I'm struggling with.

From what Ive read (from a number of different sources) A good mash will be 3Ltrs per kilo and the sparge liquor will need to be 1.5 times the mash liquor. If that's the case, a 4kilo grain bill will require 12Ltrs to mash and a further 18Ltrs sparge. This without allowing for losses to grain, hops etc will only give 30Ltrs. Surely that's not enough to produce a 25Ltr brew?

Can someone please tell me where I'm going wrong with this as I was starting to think I'd got to grips with things but I clearly haven't!

Reading this you are ready to go, just a little unsure. I'll precis your second paragraph removing your doubts and reservations.

A good mash will be 3Ltrs per kilo, a 4kilo grain bill will require 12Ltrs to mash and a further 18Ltrs sparge will only give 30Ltrs and that's not enough to produce a 25Ltr brew.


Many will use less to mash and more to sparge. If you rinse out virtually all the sugars before using all your sparge water you would stop but don't worry about that now, you may never have to.

Hops? Get some brewing done first, there's a new world awaiting.

[bigdave]

Reading this you are ready to go, just a little unsure. I'll precis your second paragraph removing your doubts and reservations.

A good mash will be 3Ltrs per kilo, a 4kilo grain bill will require 12Ltrs to mash and a further 18Ltrs sparge will only give 30Ltrs and that's not enough to produce a 25Ltr brew.


Many will use less to mash and more to sparge. If you rinse out virtually all the sugars before using all your sparge water you would stop but don't worry about that now, you may never have to.

Hops? Get some brewing done first, there's a new world awaiting.

Thanks for that Eric, I think I do really need to get stuck in and have a blast now and just see what happens.

Maybe I'm over simplifing things, only having done 2 AG's to date.
What I've done is bung all my figures into Graham Wheelers Beer Engine, free download.
Stick in your grainbill and brewlength and it comes up with mash volume figures, sparge water figures.

It also give you expected OG, FG amonst other things.
I find it very helpfull and for me has worked out bang on.

Saying that I made my tun and boiler to have virtually no dead space

I would love to do that but unfortunately all of my computers are Apples so beer engine is a no go.

Ive been freecycling and guess what,... Ive gone and got me a laptop with Windows on! Hopefully picking it up on mon/tues, so Beer Engine, here I come!!

[Spud395]

I find it great Dave and just listen to Eric, he gave me great incouragement (sp?) when I was getting started back in the day (5 weeks ago )

[Horatio]

FWIW, I work it out starting from the end. I want 23 litres in the FV and need to boil 30 litres to get there; I lose about 1l per 100g of hops, 10% per hour of the boil (90 mins boil = 4.5l loss) plus dead space in the boiler of 1.5l. All that = 7 litre loss.

To get 30 litres in the boiler I mash at a ration of 2.5 litres per kg of grain and allow for 1.25l per kg for loss to grain soaking up the liquor. I fly sparge and always treat slightly more water than I will need and always seem to get to the 30 litre mark before the running are too low in gravity.

As has been said the best way to work it all out is to have a ball park firgure and then get to it and write everything down, Then adjust for the next brew. After a couple of brews you should be baang on.

Good luck!