Loss of aroma/increase in bitterness after the boil

[raiderman]

I'm playing with late additions. There are tables around showing loss of aroma, increase in bitterness etc over time durring the boil, but I 've found nothing to show what goes on after the boil stops. Has anyone come across anything which addresses these issue in the case of late additions after the boil finishes?

[Spud395]

From research I'm doing into chillers at the minute, I've come up with this.
It seems that the quicker you can chill the wort as a unit, the better you will hold onto your aroma and the less lightly you'll get extra bitterness.

[raiderman]

there I have a problem = I'm gloriously unreconstructed and chilling is beyond me! So what I'm thinking is if I add sequentially over the last 15m and then let the hops sit for a bit and say yank them out 15m after the boil finishes do I radically muck up the bitterness?

[Spud395]

I think (and am open to correction here) that if the wort stays at near boiling temperature it will continue to isomerize the hop acids and drive off the volatile oils that good hop aroma and flavor depend upon. I guess taking out the hops wll stop the isomerization of the acids, but will have no effect on the aroma loss.
Why is chilling byond you?

[raiderman]

My reckoning too. Chilling is beyond me because except for sticking the bin in the sink I resist technology! It may be I have no choice. but I suppose if I knew how much extra bitterness letting late hops stand after the boil ends I can at least allow for that and perhaps correct for aroma later when the worts cooled to 80c

[boingy]

You might have already thought of this but how about draining the wort into the FV soon after the boil ends and letting it cool in there, thus leaving the hops behind?

Are you planning on huge amounts of late hops?

[raiderman]

You might have already thought of this but how about draining the wort into the FV soon after the boil ends and letting it cool in there, thus leaving the hops behind?

Are you planning on huge amounts of late hops?

Planning is far too organised for me!
but having done a brew this weekend getting over 50% of my bitterness from late additions and just read an innerstin american article floating the idea of getting most of the bitterness from late hops, I started thinking about the need to leave them in the hot wort for a time after the boil ends in order to get something out - otherwise an addition on flame out wouldn't have time to do anything, but then I'm thinking some of these hops I will be using are high in alpha acid - I've got some Summit in which are 17% - and whilst the aroma is meant to be great there isnt much room for overrun - hence the need to understand what happens to bitterness in hot as opposed to boiling water

To take your point, I do drain the wort into the fv after the boil but I let it stand for 15m to settle out. With normal late hops I leave them in - but is that correct for these newer varieties? and if not how long is safe to maximise aroma but not over do bitterness?

[far9410]

Just a further question on this subject, I've been adding hops at flameout, then starting to chill, do you think it would be better to leave them in hot wort for 15 mins or so before starting the chiller?

[raiderman]

raiderman wrote…
my worry is i let the wort stand for 15m before removing the hops and I don't know if the bitterness will have overshot as a result

There may be a slight additional bitterness, but I'm not sure you would notice it. Sometimes I let the wort stand in the boiler with the flameout hops for an hour, sometimes I chill to 80C and let it stand, sometimes i add the flameout hops and chill instantly and i don't notice a difference in bitterness whichever method I use. I wouldn't worry about it.

The best answer I can give is that worries me too. i don't cool and am gloriously unreconsrtucted but I've copied jubbys thoughts on the subject from a complimentary post, he being a man with lots of kit and a dab hand when it comes to aroma hopping and as a result I'm going to let the hops stand for 15m as the wort cools and assume that will maximise aroma without bitterness overshooting, and if that works I'll go out to 30m and see what that does!